"He Flipped Us And Got What He Deserved": A Royal Mugging In Chicago

The Polo Grounds: A Calm Review of Baseball ^ | 20 September 2002 | Jeff Kallman

[nopardons]

Hey, wait a darn minute. We, Blue's usual baseball " audience " LOVE his prose , the vast scope of his factual knowledge, and his posts. If you don't ... don't read them.

Now, wasn't that easy ?

[nopardons]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh ... the nonglory days. YUCK.

[BluesDuke]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh ... the nonglory days. YUCK.

Indeed. The days when George Steinbrenner was the man who threw out the first manager of the season. The Yankee success of the 1990s through this season are if nothing else testimony to what happens when a mule-head like Steinbrenner finally begins thinking with his brain for a change and gets the hell out of his own way.

[nopardons]

Well ... some of that was court ordered . LOL

Still and all, I love MY Yankees. :-)

[#3Fan]

You forget two small details: 1) The White Sox had a better sighting of the two thugs than the Royals' coach had.

They didn't know what was going on for the first few seconds. It wasn't obvious what was happening until the two scumbags started throwing punches. Even the Royals bench didn't run out until the punches were thrown.

They saw the bastards first and could have - should have - stopped them from getting anywhere near him.

It's not something that happens every day. They didn't know what they were up to at first. The Royals bench was closest, why didn't they stop them?

Unless, of course, you think a 54-year-old coach whose days as a full-time athlete are well enough behind him is better able to protect himself from a blindside attack than a 20-something full-time athlete who sees the attack coming before the intended victim does.

You're assuming that in the first fraction of a second, everyone knew exactly what was happening. That doesn't happen in these cases. When something out of the ordinary happens, it takes a few seconds to realize what is going on. The Royals bench was just 5 feet away from where these two geeks ran out onto the field, but it took them a few seconds to see what the situation was.

2) Comiskey Park, after all, is the White Sox's house, and you don't let guests in your house get their arses kicked in.

But the Royals were 20 feet away from the incident, the Sox were 150 feet from the incident. By the time the Sox could see what was happening, the Royals were on their way, because they were closer.

If you are a guest in my home and some idiot is coming over my wall aiming for tearing your head and hide off, and I happen to see said idiot before you do, it is my responsibility to protect you as a guest in my home. If I failed that responsibility, you would hardly want to be a guest in my home again and no one would blame you, either.

If you were in the kitchen grabbing us some beer and someone jumped through the window and attacked me, I would expect the other guests in the same room as I to jump in before you ran from the kitchen and jumped in all the while trying to figure out what's going on.

I'd love for you to meet some of these Sox players somewhere neutral and tell them you think they are cowards. I'd love to watch what they would do to you.

[BluesDuke]

I don't remember he was exactly court-ordered to change his thinking, unless you're thinking of what might have happened if things had gotten hairy viz the Howard Spira chazerei. Steinbrenner was at least smart enough to do some serious thinking when then-Commissioner Fay Vincent sat his can down for a couple of years over the Spira-Winfield business. A lot of people far smarter than Steinbrenner haven't been that bright to take advantage of an enforced siesta.

[nopardons]

You got it; that's what I was alluding to. Since it's late, and I could only remember Fay Vincent's name, I wrote a shorthand version. Somehow, I just knew that you would understand . LOL

Thanks, as always, for fleshing out my somewhat twisted prose.

[2Trievers]

&;-(

[sleavelessinseattle]

I really enjoyed Sweet Lou's performance...it was over the top, but the umpire's call was clearly wrong...classic Bobby Knight coach antics!

[BluesDuke]

They didn't know what was going on for the first few seconds. It wasn't obvious what was happening until the two scumbags started throwing punches. Even the Royals bench didn't run out until the punches were thrown.

This may have been more true of the White Sox bench than of the Sox on the field. But don't tell me that Paul Konerko, playing first base and a mere four or five feet away from Tom Gamboa on the coaching line, couldn't have seen at once what was happening. Remember: that coach was blindsided. He was looking toward between home plate and the mound when he was hit from behind. If Konerko couldn't see what was about to happen when they were pretty obviously going after that coach, then it's a small wonder the White Sox went in the tank the way they did this season, if they've got their heads that far out of what happens on the field.

It's not something that happens every day.

No, it isn't. Thank God. But surely athletes presumed to be heads up on the field and with fresh enough reflexes can figure out within moments that is is happening? (For that matter, in all fairness - how far up his ass did the first base umpire have his head, since umpires are presumed to have some responsibility in dispersing the occasional fan who bounds onto the field? And the first base ump was at least as ignorant as Konerko in this instance.)

They didn't know what they were up to at first. The Royals bench was closest, why didn't they stop them?

You don't really think the Royals in their dugout were closer to where their coach was being attacked than the White Sox first baseman and the first base umpire (and maybe the White Sox second baseman, too), do you?

You're assuming that in the first fraction of a second, everyone knew exactly what was happening. That doesn't happen in these cases. When something out of the ordinary happens, it takes a few seconds to realize what is going on.

It should only have taken a few seconds for at least Konerko and the first base ump at minimum, maybe the White Sox pitcher and/or second baseman, too, at least, to realise that Gamboa was being jumped blindside. You might be stunned a couple of seconds when the two idjits hop over the rail and hit the field running, but it shouldn't take you that long to figure out where they're running and what the likely target is - and they sure weren't looking for White Sox autographs if they're making a beeline to the Kansas City first base coach whom, by the way, they were insulting all night long (there were a number of people sitting in that area of the park who told various reporters they heard the abuse going on all night from that little pack). I've seen the videos of the incident on various sports reports. It wasn't that difficult to figure out where they were heading, even if you might have been a little shocked just catching them vaulting the rail at first.

At minimum, Konerko and the ump were in an even better position to stop the bastards or get them the hell off Gamboa before the Royals even needed to leave their dugout for him.

The Royals bench was just 5 feet away from where these two geeks ran out onto the field, but it took them a few seconds to see what the situation was.

The Royals bench, I repeat, wasn't quite as close as the White Sox first baseman and the first base umpire were to what was happening. I mean, come on. Konerko is a pretty strong fellow, these two miscreants weren't exactly Mr. and Master America, and Gamboa is a 54-year-old man. And Konerko is said ordinarily to be pretty quick on his feet.

If you were in the kitchen grabbing us some beer and someone jumped through the window and attacked me, I would expect the other guests in the same room as I to jump in before you ran from the kitchen and jumped in all the while trying to figure out what's going on.

Well, in my home I'd hear the racket and would probably be in like a shot to get the invader the hell out of there before I'd even finished getting the beers out. You might also expect other members of my family who aren't in the kitchen with me but who are in wherever you are when you got jumped to take the initiative (trust me - they would) against him because we are your hosts. I mean, if we'd done absolutely nothing on your behalf, in that situation, you would think far less of us - and who could blame you?

I'd love for you to meet some of these Sox players somewhere neutral and tell them you think they are cowards. I'd love to watch what they would do to you.

I didn't say they were cowards in my article, and I would not equate inaction with cowardice, necessarily. (I did hear three radio hosts Friday morning refer to the team as cowardly, not to mention one afternoon host refer likewise, though I don't recall any one singling out a particular player as such. I did, however, hear Atlanta Braves outfielder Chipper Jones enunciate an opinion practically the same as mine on the matter - and he said point blank that he'd take after such thug fans in a heartbeat if they were coming onto the field to attack a player, even a player on the opposing team. But I never heard Jones suggest the White Sox were being cowardly about the Gamboa incident, and rightly so.)

It is one thing for me to criticise inaction on the team's part and the part of at least their first baseman and maybe one or two other players who were closer to the scene of the crime than the Royals were. But inaction is provoked by all manner of stimuli, fear being only one among a rather broad number. Whatever I think was wrong with the White Sox's handling of the affair, I could not and would not say cowardice was the factor.

But think of it this way: It would have made for one hell of an image of sportsmanship to have seen even a few White Sox joining the Royals in pounding the living whey out of these two thugs, or helping to get them the hell of Gamboa. God knows with the trouble they had this season otherwise, the White Sox would not have been wounded by that sort of image enhancement.

I even heard another program suggest the White Sox second baseman said words to the effect that he wouldn't have moved a muscle to help that coach. Now, I don't think he actually did say such a thing, if only because I have been unable to verify it by way of the Chicago or the Kansas City press to which I have online access. If indeed he did say such a thing, he deserves nothing less than condemnation around the game. If he did not say such a thing, that radio program at minimum owes him a major apology.

But a thought occurs to me: Where, oh where, has our alleged commissioner been? I don't know about you, but I have heard not a peep out of Mr. Selig since this incident. Interesting, no?

[#3Fan]

This may have been more true of the White Sox bench than of the Sox on the field. But don't tell me that Paul Konerko, playing first base and a mere four or five feet away from Tom Gamboa on the coaching line, couldn't have seen at once what was happening.

Konerko could see that the cavalry was on the way. The ref too. They didn't jump in because there was already 25 guys on the way.

Remember: that coach was blindsided. He was looking toward between home plate and the mound when he was hit from behind. If Konerko couldn't see what was about to happen when they were pretty obviously going after that coach, then it's a small wonder the White Sox went in the tank the way they did this season, if they've got their heads that far out of what happens on the field.

Even the bench didn't stop the two idiots. Those guys ran past the bench. If everything is so obvious and everyone should have know exactly what was happenening the second the guys made their move, the bench would have caught the guys before they even made it to the coach. It's a wierd situation, it takes a few seconds to figure out what's happening.

No, it isn't. Thank God. But surely athletes presumed to be heads up on the field and with fresh enough reflexes can figure out within moments that is is happening?

Konerko figured it out in the same amount of time the bench did, but the guys came from the royals bench, so they had the jump. Konerko could see the bench immediately was going to get there.

(For that matter, in all fairness - how far up his ass did the first base umpire have his head, since umpires are presumed to have some responsibility in dispersing the occasional fan who bounds onto the field? And the first base ump was at least as ignorant as Konerko in this instance.)

Neither one was ignorant. It was a strange situation, everyone figured it out at about the same time, the bench was closest to where the guys came from so they were on the way first. The reason the bench was on their way first is because they were able to watch the guys on their way up to the coach and had a couple more seconds to digest that something wasn't right.

You don't really think the Royals in their dugout were closer to where their coach was being attacked than the White Sox first baseman and the first base umpire (and maybe the White Sox second baseman, too), do you?

The guys came from the Royals bench area. The Royals could watch as the situation unfolded, Konerko and the ref didn't become aware of the situation until a couple seconds later.

It should only have taken a few seconds for at least Konerko and the first base ump at minimum, maybe the White Sox pitcher and/or second baseman, too, at least, to realise that Gamboa was being jumped blindside.

Yes it took the same amount of time as the player and ref as it did the Royals bench. But the bench had a couple second head start because the guy came from their area and they were able to watch them run up and they were able to digest the information a little longer.

You might be stunned a couple of seconds when the two idjits hop over the rail and hit the field running, but it shouldn't take you that long to figure out where they're running and what the likely target is - and they sure weren't looking for White Sox autographs if they're making a beeline to the Kansas City first base coach whom, by the way, they were insulting all night long (there were a number of people sitting in that area of the park who told various reporters they heard the abuse going on all night from that little pack).

Exactly. That is entirely my point. Since the Royals players were able to hear these guys, when they jumped the fence, the Royals players were on their way first because they were the most aware of the situation.

I've seen the videos of the incident on various sports reports. It wasn't that difficult to figure out where they were heading, even if you might have been a little shocked just catching them vaulting the rail at first.

Exactly. And the Royals players got to the guys first because the guys were closest to them and they had a couple more seconds to digest the situation.

At minimum, Konerko and the ump were in an even better position to stop the bastards or get them the hell off Gamboa before the Royals even needed to leave their dugout for him.

But the players were already on the way. Konerko and the ref could see that.

The Royals bench, I repeat, wasn't quite as close as the White Sox first baseman and the first base umpire were to what was happening.

That's not what I said. I said the Royals bench was 5 feet away from where the guys jumped the fence, not the coach. When the guys jumped the fence, the Royals players came out after them. Konerko and the ref could see that.

I mean, come on. Konerko is a pretty strong fellow, these two miscreants weren't exactly Mr. and Master America, and Gamboa is a 54-year-old man. And Konerko is said ordinarily to be pretty quick on his feet.

Quick or big doesn't matter, the Royals players were closest to where the guys came from and therefore had a couple more seconds to digest the situation and come after the guys. They were already on their way before Konerko and the ump knew what the situation was.

Well, in my home I'd hear the racket and would probably be in like a shot to get the invader the hell out of there before I'd even finished getting the beers out.

Now you're just being argumentive.

You might also expect other members of my family who aren't in the kitchen with me but who are in wherever you are when you got jumped to take the initiative (trust me - they would) against him because we are your hosts. I mean, if we'd done absolutely nothing on your behalf, in that situation, you would think far less of us - and who could blame you?

You're just trying to argue. The ones that are closest will be the first there.

I didn't say they were cowards in my article,...

Yes you did.

...and I would not equate inaction with cowardice,...

It is.

...necessarily. (I did hear three radio hosts Friday morning refer to the team as cowardly, not to mention one afternoon host refer likewise, though I don't recall any one singling out a particular player as such.

They are as stupid as you then. Which isn't surprising for shock jocks.

I did, however, hear Atlanta Braves outfielder Chipper Jones enunciate an opinion practically the same as mine on the matter - and he said point blank that he'd take after such thug fans in a heartbeat if they were coming onto the field to attack a player, even a player on the opposing team.

Yes, every player would. But that doesn't mean that Konerko had the same opportunity to digest the situation as the Royals players. The Royals players were closest to where the guys came from and therefore had the jump on the situation.

But I never heard Jones suggest the White Sox were being cowardly about the Gamboa incident, and rightly so.)

Of couse he didn't, he's not as stupid and big-mouthed and false-accusatory as others.

It is one thing for me to criticise inaction on the team's part and the part of at least their first baseman and maybe one or two other players who were closer to the scene of the crime than the Royals were. But inaction is provoked by all manner of stimuli, fear being only one among a rather broad number. Whatever I think was wrong with the White Sox's handling of the affair, I could not and would not say cowardice was the factor.

You might as well, you've accused them of everything else under the sun.

But think of it this way: It would have made for one hell of an image of sportsmanship to have seen even a few White Sox joining the Royals in pounding the living whey out of these two thugs, or helping to get them the hell of Gamboa.

Yes it would have, but that does not change the circumstances and the circumstances were that the guys came from the area of thge Royals players and therefore the Royals players were the first to digest the situation and were the first to be on the way.

God knows with the trouble they had this season otherwise, the White Sox would not have been wounded by that sort of image enhancement.

I don't know, I don't watch the Sox. I just don't like it when some armchair fingerpointer gets on a soapbox when he hasn't even considered the circumstances of the situation.

I even heard another program suggest the White Sox second baseman said words to the effect that he wouldn't have moved a muscle to help that coach.

Prove it, you are truly a false accusor.

Now, I don't think he actually did say such a thing, if only because I have been unable to verify it by way of the Chicago or the Kansas City press to which I have online access. If indeed he did say such a thing, he deserves nothing less than condemnation around the game. If he did not say such a thing, that radio program at minimum owes him a major apology.

You deserve condemnation for false accusuing.

But a thought occurs to me: Where, oh where, has our alleged commissioner been? I don't know about you, but I have heard not a peep out of Mr. Selig since this incident. Interesting, no?

What does he have to do with it? It's up the prosecutor to throw these guys in prison.

[Charles Henrickson]

Bush Ligue.

I'm referring to the two miscreants, Jerk Jr. and Jerk III.

But on this one, Bluesy, I'm giving Konerko the benefit of the doubt. Like a Norwegian blue parrot, he was just stunned.

BTW, like A's & M's Mom, I too am a Chicago native (my first 31 years), and while a Cubs' fan, I did go to a number of night games (Cubs fans use the term "night games" because they are so strange to us) at old Comiskey Park. Rough crowd. Down by the stockyards (what a smell) and Hizzoner da Mare's house (the real Mayor Daley, that is). Fistfights in the stands were not uncommon. The rowdy Sox fans were known for depositing their used beer on the lawns after the game (if you know what I mean).

We Cub fans were a little nicer lot. All day games meant a higher proportion of kids. I sat in the left-field bleachers all the time in the early '70s. We would ride the opposing outfielders, this is true. But some of us drew the line at profanities, a line that some of the cruder "Bleacher Bums" often crossed. Some of us even formed a cleaner, alternative group that we called the "Bleacher Creatures."

[alfa6]

Royals ping for you barker

In the video clip that I saw several times yesterday it appeared that the White Sox Player and the Ump did start to come to Gamboa's aid. By that time however the Royals players had already swarmed the two idiots and there wasn't much that they could do. While agreeing that it would have been nice if the Sox player amd Ump had intercepted the two mental genuises before they could launch thier dastardaly attack on Coach Gamboa, in defense of said persons if thier concentraion was on the field then the Royal's players would have known what was happening before they would have.

On a personal note these two rocket scientests deserve a personal arse kicking on the mound of Comisnskey park prefereably in front of a full house.

Regards

alfa6 ;>}

[#3Fan]

I'm glad a couple more voices of reason have arrived. The earlier posters on this thread and the author were willing to condemn a whole city for something that they didn't even consider fully. Sheesh.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

William Ligue Jr. of Alsip, Ill leaves a Chicago Police station, Saturday, Sept 21, 2002, on his way to Cook County Jail. Ligue who is scheduled for bond hearing Saturday, was charged with aggravated battery for attacking Kansas City Royals' first base coach Tom Gamboa, Thursday night. (AP Photo/Stephen J. Carrera)

A man identified by police as 34-year-old William Ligue Jr. is placed in a patrol car by Chicago Police officers Thursday, Sept. 19, 2002, outside Comiskey Park in Chicago. Ligue was charged Friday with aggravated battery, a felony. His 15-year-old son was charged with two juvenile counts of aggravated battery. The father and son are charged with attacking Kansas City Royals coach Tom Gamboa during a game Thursday. The son is also charged with hitting a White Sox security guard. (AP Photo/Ted S. Warren)

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Two men accused of attacking Kansas City Royals first base coach Tom Gamboa in the ninth inning of a game against the Chicago White Sox at Comiskey Park sit in a patrol car outside the stadium Thursday, Sept. 19, 2002 in Chicago. (AP Photo/Ted S. Warren)

Chicago police place one of the two men who attacked Kansas City Royals first base coach Tom Gamboa in the ninth inning of a game against the Chicago White Sox at Comiskey Park in a patrol car outside the stadium Thursday, Sept. 19, 2002 in Chicago. (AP Photo/Ted S. Warren)

Two men who jumped from the stands at Comiskey Park in Chicago attack Kansas City Royals first base coach Tom Gamboa, whose hand is seen at lower right, in the ninth inning Thursday, Sept. 19, 2002. The Royals entire dugout cleared and their bullpen rushed in from the right-field bullpen, with several players jumping on the fans, who were escorted off the field in handcuffs. Gamboa had a large cut on his forehead, but he walked off the field under his own power.(AP Photo/Ted S. Warren)

Kansas City Royals coach Tom Gamboa is shown in this 2002 file photo. Gamboa was ambushed at first base by two men who ran out of the seats in the ninth inning against the Chicago White Sox, Thursday, Sept 19, 2002 in Chicago. Gamboa had several cuts and a large bruise on his forehead, but he walked off the field to a standing ovation from the crowd at Comiskey Park. (AP Photo/file)

[verity]

"venomously obscene abuse from a group of shirtless, tattooed fellows"

It's an advertisement for the "pro-chice" crowd. ;~)

[agrace]

Gamboa is saying he has no hard feelings at all that the ump and Chicago first baseman (especially those two because they were right there) did nothing because "we were all just stunned."

I'd be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt too, simply because I wouldn't want to believe that they just wouldn't help. After all, why wouldn't they?

[agrace]

When I first saw footage of this yesterday morning it occurred to me that the only way I could tell the difference between father and son is that the father's pants fit while the son's were falling off his butt! What a couple of charmers.

[copycat]

Police reporting indicated the elder Ligue's history includes charges for domestic battery.

Now there's a real man, one who can beat up women and old men.