Biscuit fire nearly surrounded

I leave this thread to your capable hands as I leave the computer to journey into the Honey Do List for today!

Thanks for all of your help!

Dave

I took them on the road from Show Low to Heber, Arizona. Most don't have captions. They say it by themselves.

This last photo was taken on an Apache Reservation. They log their land.

Information Collected @
08/23/02 @ 8:00 p.m. PST

Name: Biscuit Fire
(formerly the Florence Fire)

Location: 26 miles southwest of Grants Pass, Oregon

Lat: 42° 24' 46"
Long: 123° 52' 14"

Date of Origin: 7/13/02, reported at 12 AM

Size: 494,813 acres

Cause: Lightning

Contained: 70%

Expected Containment Date: 08/31/2002

Fuels/Materials Involved: Mixed Conifers and Brush

Structures Threatened:
Residences: 274
Commercial: 0
Outbuildings: 0

Structures Lost:
Residences: 4
Commercial: 0
Outbuildings: 9

Resources Threatened:
65 structures in the Wilderness Retreat, Gardner Ranch, Chetco Inn, Tolman Ranch and Pistol River areas.

Industrial timberlands

Threatened, Endangered, and Sensitive fish, plants and animal species, long term ecosystem productivity.

Rogue, and Smith National Wild and Scenic Rivers.

North Fork Smith Botanical Area and Port Orford Cedars.

Personnel Assigned:
5,069 personnel

Injuries:
2 broken ankles, 1 bee sting reaction, and cases of heat exhaustion have been reported.

Equipment Assigned:
Crews:
Type I: 25
Type II: 94
Camp Crews: 29
Helicopters:
Type I: 11
Type II: 10
Type III:10
Engines: 173
Dozers: 78

Cost to Date: $102,500,000

Observed Fire Behavior:

Zone I: Surface spread with occasional uphill runs was observed well inside the perimeter.

Zones 2: Little or no heat was observed.

Zone 3: Moderate to minimal fire behavior was observed in the Mineral Hill area, (Division G, see map). The burnout near Red Mountain Creek,(Division O and P, see map), continued backing down slope with low ground fire. Minimal fire behavior was observed in all remaining divisions.

Zone 4: Minimal fire activity occurred due to the temperature inversion over all of Zone 4. Fire behavior consisted of low intensity backing fire with isolated tree torching where heavy surface fuels were present.

Current Weather Conditions:
Wind Speed: 3-10 MPH
Wind Direction: NW-NE-SW
Temperature: 65-85°
Relative Humidity: 28-44%

See above.

Great photos. Nice to have someone with your perspective taking these shots. Bush should see these.

I've been meaning to get back on the Friva thread to look for photos of you and your girls. What an educational trip for them. Have your "students" posted their essays on FR yet? Great remarks on the Anderson Report. Are you sending these photo's to him?

Great photos. Nice to have someone with your perspective taking these shots. Bush should see these.

Thank you. It is a painful business, especially to know that it isn't over.

I've been meaning to get back on the Friva thread to look for photos of you and your girls.

I would hope that there aren't any of the kids.

What an educational trip for them.

They learned a LOT, much of which they haven't adsorbed yet.

Have your "students" posted their essays on FR yet?

Indeed they have.

Great remarks on the Anderson Report.

I was able to spend some time with Ben. Private conversations really help people get it. Twenty minute speeches don't work.

Are you sending these photo's to him?

Good idea.

I read NattieShea's essay. It's terrific. I left her a compliment. It so darn wonderful to know there are kids that can think.

Hey Pa, can you please add my name to the NattieShea fan list?:=)

Dammit, man! Now my screen is all bleary!

I'm headed up to the rim country next month, a few miles west of the Rodeo-Chedeski devastation, to hunt elk.

I love our forests in Arizona, and the lanscape you've shown just tears my heart out.

Why did we let the Watermelons do this to us? </rhetoric>

The RICOnuts are afraid of logging. I hate to tell them that most of that timber was virtually worthless trash as timber, good only for pulp and fuel, certainly not lumber. Look at the aspect ratio of the tree in the last shot by comparison. When the trees have enough room the trunk develops some mass. The stuff that burned is scraggly overcrowded material that bolted for light. It's all set to blow up again, and if it does the fire may be even hotter.

The ground is an open growing medium set for weed infestation. There is no cover because they didn't seed it before the recent rains. They'll lose the nutrient and kill the streams with alkaline silt.

We are going from bad to worse.

Those pictures speak a thousand words.

Thanks for the pictures . I have visited the Northern Arizona forests multiple times . It is awful to see the damage of the monstrous fires!

bttt

SWSI Drought Index

The Surface Water Supply Index (SWSI) is a drought index calculated by the USDA from data collected in each of the water basins in Oregon. The scale ranges from +4.1 (wet) to -4.1 (dry). An estimation of drought severity for an individual basin may be associated to the indices as follows:

0.1 to 1.0 Slightly Moist -0.1 to -1.0 Slightly Dry

1.1 to 2.0 Moderately Moist -1.1 to -2.0 Moderately Dry

2.1 to 3.0 Very Moist -2.1 to -3.0 Severely Dry

3.1 to 4.1 Extremely Moist - 3.1 to -4.1 Extremely Dry

The first map shows the statewide snapshot for the current month. The ensuing graphs show trends for each basin since 1975. The "Statewide Total" graph is a summation of the individual basins to give a relative picture on a statewide basis. The index is updated monthly.

NOON UPDATE:

Daily Biscuit Fire News Release
August 24, 2002 12 Noon

Grants Pass, Oregon – As of 10:00 pm Friday night, the Biscuit Fire is 70% contained and consists of 494,813 acres in size.

The public is invited to attend an open house Sunday August 25 from 1:30-4:00 pm at the Chetco Fire Camp. The Camp is located 5 miles east of Brookings, Oregon on the North Bank Road. The Northern Rockies National Incident Team is sponsoring the open house. The Team wants to express their appreciation for the support surrounding communities have provided firefighters over the past few weeks. Incident Commander Steve Frye will give a fire briefing beginning at 2:00 pm followed by a tour of the fire camp.

Zone 1: All 35 miles of containment lines in Zone 1 are holding and are undergoing rehabilitation. Rehabilitation of the 35 miles of containment line continues. The Sprague Spike Camp in Merlin, Oregon was dismantled yesterday and crews are being released or relocated.

Mike Morcom’s Blue Mountain Interagency Team will replace the Southwest Area Incident Team today.

Zone 2 (California): Little or no heat was observed within the zone. Crews continued rehabilitation efforts of dozer and hand lines in all divisions of the zone.

A Type III Incident Management Team from the Six Rivers National Forest will assume control of the zone Sunday morning, August 25.

Zone 3: Burnout operations using a helicopter continued yesterday east of the South Fork of the Chetco River but fog prevented completion. The burnout is expected to resume this afternoon. Direct line construction and mop-up continue throughout the rest of the zone. The Mineral Hill Task force made great progress cutting line across the head of Mineral creek. Completion of the line is expected today.

Zone 4: A temperature inversion coupled with fog kept fire activity to a minimum. Crews continue mop-up efforts. The night shift crews dealt with extremely smoky conditions with visibility down to ten feet. Burnout was completed from Wildhorse Prairie south to an area east of Sugarloaf Mountain. All areas north and east of Wildhorse Prairie are in mop up phase. Night crews accomplished burn-out of the line from Meadow Creek almost to the Pistol River.

Areas still under Pre-evacuation Notice
The following areas are still under pre-evacuation notice: Agness and Illahe on the Rogue River, and the upper Pistol River drainage above Deep Creek near Gardner Ranch. The Oak Flat (Curry County) and Wilderness Retreat on the Chetco River are still at risk.

Expected Weather conditions
Light winds, from the N-NW at 3-8mph with temperatures between 76-84°. Firefighters will continue to burnout and strengthen lines as conditions allow.

Biscuit Fire Facts
The fire is the top priority for the Pacific Northwest Region with 5,069 personnel representing various federal, state, local and private agencies and organizations. The Oregon National Guard, firefighters from Canada, Australia and New Zealand as well as 173 fire engines, 78 dozers and 31 helicopters and aircraft are providing support to the incident.

Biscuit Fire Background
The Biscuit Fire, the largest wildfire in Oregon in the last century, encompasses most of the Kalmiopsis Wilderness and stretches from 10 miles east of the coastal community of Bookings, Oregon, south into California, east to the Illinois Valley and north to within a few miles of the Rogue River. The fire encompasses lands in Oregon’s Josephine and Curry Counties and Del Norte County in California.

Biscuit Fire Management
An Area Command Team is managing the entire fire from a center in Medford, Oregon, setting common objectives and strategies for firefighters. A new Area Command Team headed by Edy Williams-Rhodes will replace the outgoing Area Command Team headed by Rex Mann on Sunday morning, August 25.

The Biscuit Fire is divided into four administrative zones that are managed by three incident management teams. The teams are coordinating fire line construction; burn out operations and structural and rural community protection:

Zone 1: Zone 1 manages the eastern flank of the fire north of the California State Line. Its command center is located at Lake Selmac, OR.

Zone 2, 3: One incident management team located 5 miles east of Brookings, Oregon on the North Bank Road, manages Zones 2 and 3. Zone 2 is the southern portion of the fire that is burning in northern California. Zone 3, includes the southwest portion of the fire from the Oregon state line to about 5 miles south of Gold Beach.

Zone 4: Zone 4 is managing the northwestern portion of the fire from a command center in Gold Beach, Oregon. The zone also maintains a large camp located at the Quosatana recreation site on the Rogue River.

Zone command center representatives have been coordinating with local officials and conducting meetings to inform the public about important safety and evacuation issues.

Biscuit Fire Information:
Information about the Biscuit Fire can be found at http://www.biscuitfire.com. The joint information center can also be reached by calling 541-471-6685 or –6686.

Other Local Fire News:
The Apple Fire is located on the Umpqua National Forest is now estimated to be 7,900 acres and 15% contained. The fire is 21 miles east of Glide, OR. For information on the Apple Fire please call 541-496-3532 or visit them on the web at www.fs.fed.us/r6/umpqua.

The Tiller Complex Fire on the Umpqua National Forest is now estimated to be 62,600 acres and 65% contained. For further information on the Tiller Complex Fire please call 541-825-1002 or visit them on the web at www.fs.fed.us/r6/umpqua.

DeFAZIO TOURS AREA FIRE CAMPS

Published: August 24, 2002

By Bill Lundquist

pilot Staff Writer

Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Springfield, visited the Chetco Incident Command Center Thursday morning, and was briefed on the Biscuit Fire.

DeFazio's itinerary later took him to the Gold Beach Incident Command Center, a joint chamber of commerce meeting, the Port Orford Senior Center, and the Bandon Riverwalk.

He started his morning, however, with a briefing from Steve Frye, incident commander of the Northern Rockies Incident Management Team, and other top fire officials.

DeFazio related the front-line fire information to federal forest policy issues.

He declined to comment much on the president's forest policy speech to be given later that day in Central Point.

He hoped that any changes to federal policy on forest road maintenance and timber thinning would be followed by a sustained financial commitment.

Frye said his team has had to adapt its strategy to "reverse" conditions on the Biscuit Fire.

In most forests, he said, the humidity rises and the wind drops at night. He said conditions at the Biscuit Fire have been just the opposite, making the fire more active at night.

He said his team usually finds it easier to stop a fire on the ridge tops, but here it has been better to stop it in the bottoms of basins.

Frye said his team has adapted well and feels good about its success against the fire.

He said a variety of agencies and large number of resources had been required to fight the fire, up to 30 percent of all the forest-fire fighting resources in the United States at its peak.

"That's a huge commitment," he said. "Some resources have to go to other fires now, but that won't compromise our containment of this one."

Frye said the effort has also involved private contractors who have employed out-of-work loggers and construction workers.

"Are you satisfied with the resources you have now?" said DeFazio. He asked if helicopters were being used.

Frye said he is now able to use more of his "aviation assets."

He said an aerial ignition operation was carried out Wednesday to help the fire burn to the bottom of a drainage, slowing its momentum to keep it from "spotting ahead of itself."

He said the terrain was too rugged to carry out the operation with ground crews.

"Our goal is to keep the fire as close as possible to where it was when we arrived," said Frye.

DeFazio said he'd read press accounts about a lack of resources in the initial attack on the fire.

He said there is a constant debate in Washington about the firefighting budget and having more pre-deployed resources available.

Diana St. Marie, of the U.S. Forest Service, said there had been questions at every public meeting about the initial response to the fire.

She said lightning strikes started four fires. The initial attacks on the northern and southern fires failed.

St. Marie said the fires grew so rapidly the crews had to be pulled out. She said the small fires were not the highest priority at the time.

Even if more resources had been available, she said, "There's not much we could have done, given the conditions."

Frye said the perception is that all it takes to handle large forest fires is more resources.

He said that is the way it works when putting out structure fires in cities, but forest fires are different.

"In reality," he said, "even if we had all available resources, we couldn't put out some fires."

He said it is just too dangerous to send firefighters in when facing situations like a 200-foot high wall of flame, five miles long.

In those conditions, he said, resources cannot be put on the fire itself, and fuel management becomes more important.

DeFazio said, "But your perception is that more initial attack resources would have helped."

"Absolutely," said Frye.

"But you need to address fuel management now," said DeFazio.

"We need both," said Frye. "It's not a one-size-fits-all issue. We pick up more than 95 percent of fire starts initially, but the 3-5 percent that get large garner all the interest."

He said dealing with forest and fire issues will take a federal commitment, not just an initiative.

Dennis Sifford, incident commander with the Oregon Department of Forestry, said infrastructure maintenance is an issue.

"It took a lot of effort to get in to the fire," he said.

DeFazio said the forest service currently has a $4 billion maintenance backlog for existing forest roads.

Curry County Commissioner Lucie La Bonté said it took about a week and a half to clear roads to reach the fire.

La Bonté also chairs the Siskiyou Regional Advisory Committee that recommends projects to the forest service using federal Title II money.

She said most members of the committee agree on the need for better maintenance of existing forest service roads. She said even some environmental groups are not "totally opposed" to that.

St. Marie said fighting the Biscuit Fire has taken $53 million out of the regional budget of the forest service, including $18 million intended for road maintenance.

"So you lost a season," said DeFazio of the road maintenance.

"You can't lose sight of the rehabilitation," said Frye. "It's critically important and not inexpensive."

He said the Biscuit Fire "must rank as one of the most significant ecological events in this part of the state, at least in recent history."

Frye said the fire has also presented a "real opportunity" to learn. "I learn something new every day I am on this fire," he said.

La Bonté asked if snags were a problem in fighting the fire.

Frye said the problem was not so much existing snags in the forest, but trees that were burned into snags. "It's a safety issue, not a fire-spread issue," he said.

Frye then said something that raised some eyebrows, including those of DeFazio.

"In old growth," said Frye, "this fire has not been difficult to deal with."

He said old growth forests don't have the "ladder" fuels that enable fires to burn up to the canopy, so the fire burns closer to the ground.

Frye said most of the area affected by the Biscuit Fire has been burned by moderate to low intensity fire.

His information officer, Bob Summerfield, said, "The whole area is not black." Frye said the burn pattern is a mosaic.

DeFazio said he would get out to the burn and take a look at it once the fire has subsided.

As for the president's visit to Medford, DeFazio said, "I'm pleased the president is coming and showed concern."

The problem, he said, is a lack of financial commitment. He said the administration is telling the forest service to "eat" the cost of the fire, leaving no money for forest thinning and fuels management.

"I've been pushing for a fuel-thinning policy for nine years," said DeFazio.

He predicted no real policy would be laid out in the president's Medford "press event."

"It needs to make sense," he said of a new forest policy. "The key word is commitment, but I call it investment."

"The federal government has been treating the forests like a cash cow for years," said DeFazio.

"We've got to talk about spending money," he said, "something the president and his Office of Management and Budget has not been willing to do."

DeFazio said the head of that office suppresses every budget except the one for the Pentagon.

He said the head of the office wouldn't release energy funds to Oregon last year, saying the winter was mild and energy costs were low in Oregon.

DeFazio said the actual conditions were just the opposite.

"There is no one easy answer," said Frye of the forest fire problem. "It runs the whole gamut of matters related to land management. It's got to be a coordinated effort: fuel management, land use management, zoning."

DeFazio said he doesn't want to see the largest ponderosa pines cut to pay for road maintenance and forest thinning.

He said it might be possible for forests west of the Cascades to pay their own way for road maintenance and thinning, but such projects in the intermountain forests will definitely cost money.

"The key is we all need to be working on a common goal," said Frye.

Salute to the FireFighter's !!

Stop the attacks by the wacko, extreme left-wing, lunatic fringe, dirt worshipping Green Jihadist, enviro-nazis terrorist's and their toadies in the media, on our Freedoms !!

Freedom Is Worth Fighting For !!

Molon Labe !!

FMCDH !!

I love Cat's, it goes back to the days of my early teens in the 40's when I operated a D-8 on the farm in So-Cal...those were the days...hot and dusty... :o)

Stop the attacks by the anti-bulldozer, wacko, extreme left-wing, lunatic fringe, dirt worshipping Green Jihadist, enviro-nazis terrorist's and their toadies in the media, on our Freedoms !!

Freedom Is Worth Fighting For !!

Molon Labe !!

FMCDH !!

BTW, when two fires "merge", what is the significance of that? It would seem that it would reduce the perimeter required to contain the fires. Does it cause them to become hotter or more destructive when they meet, or why is the event newsworthy?

Grampa Dave, here is my obligatory post about the IL-76 Waterbomber, except that it is about why the Forest Service refuses to use it. The excuses are quite funny.

I've searched for references to the report mentioned in the article, and havent' found it yet.

June 14, 4002

Forest Service wary of hiring giant Russian 'Waterbomber'

By Raquel Rutledge The Gazette (Colorado Springs)

It's nicknamed "the Waterbomber" and would seem to be every firefighter's fantasy.

At nearly four times the size of the largest air tankers fighting Colorado's massive fires, it's capable of dropping 11,000 gallons of water or retardant in less than 15 seconds.

The four-engine cargo jet, officially called the Ilyushin-76, outperforms smaller tankers in high winds and can quell flames the length of 12 football fields in one drop.

But like its name sounds, the Ilyushin has been just that, an illusion for U.S. firefighters. The Waterbomber is a Russian tanker, and the U.S. Forest Service is skeptical of the abilities of the aircraft owned by this country's former foe.

Russians have offered to use the Waterbomber - their equivalent of the American-made C-141 workhorse - to help fight U.S. wildland fires since 1995. The Forest Service rejected each offer.

This week, the undersecretary of the U.S. Department of Agriculture ordered the Forest Service to justify its opposition to the aircraft. The Forest Service is due to make its report today.

"We are not interested in buying or using the IL-76 for several critical reasons," said Joe Walsh, spokesman for the U.S. Forest Service. "The plane would not meet our firefighting needs."

For one, the Forest Service has enough air tankers, despite what commanders at many of the fires are saying, Walsh said.

"We're in good shape," he said. "We're not having any problems with our resources. We don't have any need for it)."

In addition, the huge plane is too costly and lacks ability to make downhill drops, a necessary maneuver in fighting fires in the mountains, Walsh said.

And the Waterbomber actually drops too much water, among other problems, he said.

"It's like wasting water," he said. "Water is not a commodity we can just dump hundreds of thousands of gallons of and not worry about running out, especially in drought conditions."

Tom Robinson, a firefighter and the volunteer international liaison for the Russian emergency situations ministry, said the Forest Service is being stubborn and making excuses to avoid change.

"They don't want anyone to come in and give them advice," said Robinson, who also is an executive with Global Emergency Response, a government and commercial consortium of U.S., Canadian and Russian agencies that has tried for years to get the Waterbomber into the American market.

"They've got blinders on. It's unbelievable the denial they're in saying they don't need anything else."
Robinson flew with a crew of the Waterbomber as it fought major wildland fires in Greece in 1999 and 2000.
"I have been on the plane. I have fought fire. I know it's far better than anything the United States has," he said.
Robinson said the Russian government is offering the plane's help for about $6,000 an hour, roughly double the cost of the smaller U.S. aircraft.

"Basically all they want is to have their expenses covered," he said. "This is not a commercial venture."
Plus, the Waterbomber can do more with fewer drops and in less time, so the cost shouldn't be a factor, he said.
Jim Harrison, a division chief with the Santa Barbara County Fire Department, said he first learned about the Waterbomber in 1998 when a group of Russian emergency responders attended a weeklong workshop in California and brought video of the aircraft.

"If I were making the decision today, I'd have the thing over here," Harrison said. "If it would do half the things they said it would, it would be much more capable than anything we have."

Got a great cartoon from the Orange County Register by Mike Shelton:

0.1 to 1.0 Slightly Moist	-0.1 to -1.0 Slightly Dry
1.1 to 2.0 Moderately Moist	-1.1 to -2.0 Moderately Dry
2.1 to 3.0 Very Moist	-2.1 to -3.0 Severely Dry
3.1 to 4.1 Extremely Moist	- 3.1 to -4.1 Extremely Dry