A Reflection on Apostasy

The Diocese Report/DRBlog ^ | Wednesday, August 14, 2002 | Brian Mershon

[exmarine]

Allend, Truth exists (Jesus personifies it). Trying to water it down or synthesize it is always a dangerous exercise. Scripture is Truth. Synthesis is just another word for lie when one is speaking of scripture. Darwinian theory is atheistic in its roots and philosophy - trying to mix it with Truth is pure heresy. Darwinists laugh at the idea of "theistic evolution." It's an oxymoron. Catholics started this type of synthesis with Aquinas when he tried to reconcile Scripture with Aristotle - didn't work. Aristotle was a pagan. Pagans cannot see the truth as they are spiritually blind. What Aquinas succeeded in doing was drawing attention to the natural world (aristotlean)and way from revelation. From this grew the humanism of the Rennaissance, followed by the Enlightenment, etc. as man sunk further and further into humanism and confusion. Look at Michaelangelo's David statue (this is not the jewish David - statue not circumcised). The statue depicts the pre-eminence of man - look at the oversized hands and posture - man can do anything apart from God!

[stuartcr]

Is a church-going Catholic closer to God than a church-going non-Catholic Christian?

[exmarine]

You are exactly right.

[exmarine]

There is nothing abstract about Adam and Eve. The Catholic Church recognizes Adam and Eve as historical figures and the first men, from whom we are all descended. Accordingly, "allegory" would be incorrect.

Have you even read Most's essay that you posted for me? To wit:

They do not ask what is the genre of Genesis 1-3. It is actually an ancient story, made up to serve as a vehicle for teaching some things that really happened...

Obviously Most thinks Genesis is an allegory...I think you are confused yourself.

[stuartcr]

How can bible scripture be considered the infallible word of God, if it is dependent upon a fallible humans' interpretation?

[exmarine]

I will tell you as kindly as I can: If you believe there is punishment after forgiveness of sin, then you are believing a heresy. Either the blood of Christ cleanses (as completely as scripture CLEARLY teaches or it doesn't. There is no in between. I have backed myself up with scripture. You have supported your assertions with nothing but your own confused beliefs. If truth matters to you, if you love God, then I suggest you pick up the bible and start reading Romans. There is no condemnation or punishment for those who trust in Christ. Period. Do you really think you can do anything BY YOUR OWN EFFORTS that will gain you merit with God? If that be true, the Christ need not have died - you could cleanse yourself! What a lie that is! I rebuke and reject that lie and I urge you to seek the truth!

[exmarine]

He doesn't use the word "allegory" but he does say that genesis 1-3 are just ancient stories (not real). Jesus disagrees with him. Jesus said: For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. Jn 5:46. I offer that verse to Rev. Most.

[Aliska]

You don't want to admit you made a mistake about the door and now you are trying to bait me into a scriptural debate.

You didn't acknowledge the scripture where it says the last penny must be paid.

When one picks up scripture and starts trying to interpret it for one's self, it is not as plain to me as it seems to be to you. There are many things I don't know for sure, but I do know that what you are saying is one of the anathemas of the Council of Trent and I don't want to fall into that trap.

[exmarine]

Not necessarily. Justin Martyr (Apology 1:46), A.D. 155, said that some, like Socrates could even be Christians because they followed the divine Word, who wrote the law on their hearts.

I don't care what a man said outside of scripture. If it contradicts scripture, it's wrong. Paul the Apostle wrote in 1cor 2:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Whose right?

[Frapster]

I'm RC, but I've seriously looked into the Orthodox church. It's the only church other than RC who can claim any historical ancestry to the early church.

I wonder if ancient Hebrews ever doubted their "Jewishness" by virtue of not being able to trace their lineage to Abraham?

[exmarine]

You don't want to admit you made a mistake about the door and now you are trying to bait me into a scriptural debate.

In fact, you reinforced what I said about the Holy Door! AS if walking thru a door can have any power! ROFL.

I think you had better quit before you make yourself look even more foolish. Mat 5:25 has nothing to do with the Holy Door. Jesus is talking about making peace with your brother. What does this have to do with punishments after one is cleansed by the blood of Christ? I suggest you really think about your answer and read and meditate on this scripture before you respond.

[exmarine]

It is actually an ancient story, made up to serve as a vehicle for teaching some things...

How much more plain can Most be? It was "made up"! Jesus disagrees with him clearly. Who is right Allend? Jesus or Most?

[exmarine]

For not the hearers of the Law are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

Let me ask you: How many doers of the Law are there? Answer: Not one single person. How do I know. YOu have to read all of Romans. Ro. 3:23: All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and There is none righteous, no not one Ro 3:10. How about James 2:10: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

Do you know anyone who has kept the whole Law? hmm?

[HeadOn]

Punishment for sin here on earth? Sure there is. What about David and Bathsheba? David sinned, big time, and his family was forever plagued by violence and strife, as a direct result.

2 Samuel 12 - 7 And Nathan said to David, Thou [art] the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; 8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if [that had been] too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things. 9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife [to be] thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon. 10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife. 11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give [them] unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.