Great Myths of the Great Depression

Universidad Autónoma de Centro América ^ | 1998 | Lawrence W. Reed

[x]

It'as not just economics that count. It's also psychology -- both the psychology of markets and the psychology of politics. Once a certain threshhold is passed, when inflation cuts monetary values enough or enough of the population is unemployed or enough financial assets have just disappeared, it's hard to put things back together again. That explains Hitler in Europe and -- without directly likening one to the other -- Roosevelt's New Deal over here. The expansive, irrationally exhuberant psychology of boom gives way to a morose, pessimistic bust psychology, accompanied by a reaction against markets and economic libertarianism. So while Hoover and FDR's policies did make things worse, it can't automatically assume that libertarian policies would have made everything right or could have been adopted.

[Red Jones]

that's a good question you ask, I just assume that the fed can control money supply at will, but I guess their mechanisms aren't so powerful. and even if they do just print a bunch of money and distribute it, that is very problematic from a moral point of view, then they're just taking real wealth from one group and giving it to another. I must digest your newer post on this thread.

[Axenolith]

"For example, inceased economic activity generates more money and is
reflected in an increased money supply."

What, does economic activity produce some type of transmogrification I haven't heard of? The only thing that increases money supply (at the present) is the expansion of debt.

Real money (or "tangible" wealth) is created by production of goods and products which are purchased with another portable, fungible product which is also produced (like gold or silver).

If current money were "real" it would expand in lockstep with general production and be based on a definable portable commodity. Prices would rise or fall based solely on a products desirability or quantity.

Right now we've seen the money supply expand by about 15% since the beginning of the year, but the economy sure didn't expand that much and the base that that money resides upon (confidence in debt) is starting to get a little teetery...

That might be a little simplistic, but its how I see it.

[AdamSelene235]

that's a good question you ask, I just assume that the fed can control money supply at will,

Nope.

but I guess their mechanisms aren't so powerful. and even if they do just print a bunch of money and distribute it, that is very problematic from a moral point of view,then they're just taking real wealth from one group and giving it to another.

You made me squirt coffee out my nose. Even *if* they had a moral problem, which they don't, they lack the means. The entire point of debasing the currency is to screw the creditors in favor of debtors. Since the government is the largest debtor and controls the currency, the bias tends to be inflationary. After all, what fun is it being a Government Supremacist unless you get to squander the taxes of future generations in addition to the present generation. Eventually, the system runs out of gain, and negative feedback reigns.

Recently, they've discovered means of stealth, localized inflation, giving them access to a larger chunk of people's income streams.

[Red Jones]

i don't understand financial stuff so much; But FannieMae I understand insures (underwrites) the large bulk of home mortgages, but I don't get exactly what the chart portrays. It means there's been a massive increase in mortgage debt? and this mortgage debt is currently financing consumer spending. Please spell out potential problems. I'm puzzled that the news said that fanniemae and freddymac should be private organizations? what is really happening?

[AdamSelene235]

So while Hoover and FDR's policies did make things worse, it can't automatically assume that libertarian policies would have made everything right or could have been adopted.

Its a bit like Christianity, a wonderful idea, but no one's ever tried it.

[AdamSelene235]

But FannieMae I understand insures (underwrites) the large bulk of home mortgages

If you can articulate why banks should have multiplier restrictions, it should be clear why the GSE's are dangerous. Some interesting links.

Big Scary Monsters

'Fannie and Freddie Were Lenders': U.S. Real Estate Bubble Nears Its End

Fannie Mae Enron

[sistergoldenhair]

Ping

[liberallarry]

Marina Del Rey?

Call it what you like. A lot of people - including me - have a very good time living here.

Things aren't right. Things go wrong. Nobody is sure how to fix them. That's the reality. If my toilet doesn't work I call a plumber. If my economy doesn't work I'm not sure who to call. You think you do? Hubris.

[andy_card]

Have you ever seen the Moscow subway?

As a matter of fact, I have.

It was built in the early days of the USSR. Its breathtakingly beautiful. Kinda hard to ignore the ghastly structures that surround it. Same thing.

No, I'm not sure it is the same thing. While I agree that the Moscow Subway is beautiful, I recall reading that tens of thousands of political prisoners died building it. I remember no such statistics from the early-days of the Social Security Administration. Perhaps you could refresh my memory?

[AdamSelene235]

Marina Del Rey?

Call it what you like. A lot of people - including me - have a very good time living here.

What did I say about it? I really like Marina Del Ray. Pity about the state next to it.

Things aren't right. Things go wrong. Nobody is sure how to fix them. That's the reality. If my toilet doesn't work I call a plumber. If my economy doesn't work I'm not sure who to call. You think you do? Hubris.

This is precisely my point. First do no harm.

Don't fault me for attempting evasive manuevers. With loonies like the one's in charge, you would be crazy not to.

[Arioch7]

Oh man, I was trying to attack left-wing idealogues here.

I can put it simply, Mr.Soros is a hypocrite who grows wealthy on ideas that I share while trying to incense the wrold AGAINST those very same ideas.

The difference is I want the whole world to use the ideas that Soros and I espouse and he states that they are wrong. If that is the case, why does he continue to use the ideas I believe in and tel the world they are wrong?

Answer: He is a hypocrite.

Also, Gates is a Thief and Carnegie is one of the great people of history that has been maligned. The market is ALWAYS sef-correcting. I have been nay saying the great rush of the nineties since 1998 ans the old style investors had done so themselves. This curent recession is almost proof that the market corrects itself.

I might note that the "Market" is a collection of hundreds of thousands of people that make individual decisions whether to buy or sell. No one can "predict" it.

However, when I saw 50% of the "New Economy" companies having NO products and NO value, I concluded that they would all die. I guess I was right. It is not difficult, if a company has NO business plan and 22 Million dollars in capitalization, they will probably fail. It is as simple as that.

I listen to Soros as a Speculative trader that has billions of dollars in assets... so of course what he says or does has consequence. I do not speculate on a countries economic health like Mr.Soros does and I do not have his resources, yet I do not think I am up to the task of making a profit because of economic decline.

LOL! O course I would probably do as he says but I would feel a twinge of guilt. Perhaps that is why he espouses left wing causes while gobbling up all thier capital. The media seems to like it.

Adam, you summed it up right there, he DOES have a god complex and I quite frankly do not accept it.

Larry, I tried to illustrate what happens in an "Equal" society and I was not denigrating it, I was celebrating it. What I mentioned is what happens in ALL Socialast societies.. I am not so dishonest as to use such a ploy, but I guess it works. If I say I "Care" while shorting a countries currency into extinction, will that make me a "Good Person"?

One of the basic tenets of all religous faith is that you should question a man who SAYS one thing and DOES another. I believe in this so maybe thats why I am not a Billionaire.

[AdamSelene235]

I remember no such statistics from the early-days of the Social Security Administration. Perhaps you could refresh my memory?

Americans were too smart. We put an end to things before they got out of hand (if you ignore the Japanese concentration camps).

Pity about the opportunity cost. We should be colonizing Mars by now.

[Arioch7]

Forgive the typos, I typed it in the dark. You all know what I mean.

[AdamSelene235]

One of the basic tenets of all religous faith is that you should question a man who SAYS one thing and DOES another. I believe in this so maybe thats why I am not a Billionaire.

Didn't stop Rockefeller.

[AdamSelene235]

Have you ever seen the Moscow subway?

My point was that not everything Socialist fails. Especially in the early days.

[Arioch7]

I am not doubting you but I need specifics, or even factual generalities.

[andy_card]

My point was that not everything Socialist fails. Especially in the early days.

How was the Moscow subway socialist? Was it because the builders were socialists? Because I find it hard to believe that building transportation infrastructure is not a legitimate role of a capitalist government. The Paris, Washington, New York, London, etc. subways were all built the same way (minus sub-zero temperatures and slave labor).

[ValenB4]

You must have read about Elliot Waves. I don't think they are true, but it is cool to talk about. I wonder if Isaac Asimov derived the concept of psychohistory for the Foundation novels from this idea.

[agitator]

You don't seem to realize that trade has two equal parties--the buyer and the seller. You can't beat up on one without giving the other a black eye as well. Let other governments beat up on their consumers, forcing artificially high prices and inflating the cost of living with high tarrifs. Free trade is almost always the economically and morally sensible policy, even if unilateral.

Oh, BS. Go try selling cell phones in Japan or farm products to the French. What planet are you living on? More "This is the way I wish it was" instead of "This is the way it is."