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To: Grampa Dave; Dog Gone; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Robert357
I've noticed in the last few graphs that power availability is higher in the very early morning than the key afternoon period, where it's actually needed.

For example, look at the graph Grandpa Dave provided - we have plenty of power between 4 and 5 am, but then availability drops at 6 and doesn't really recover until 5:15 or so.

If it weren't for this drop, it would seem that we would not have a power crisis, so I have to ask what's behind what looks like a daily pattern - why couldn't we simply produce more power in the afternoon?

Does this have to do with the patterns affecting wind, geothermal or solar power? I didn't think we used enough of those sources to matter, but perhaps I was wrong.

(Note that this is power availability I'm talking about (the green graph), not power use (the red and blue graphs). The reasons for power use having the pattern it does appear to be self-explanatory - a lot of people are turning on their air conditioners and other equipment during the day, and heat loads peak in mid-afternoon).

Thoughts?

D

7 posted on 07/11/2002 6:52:42 AM PDT by daviddennis
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To: daviddennis
Might be the affect of imported power from the time zones east and earlier.
10 posted on 07/11/2002 7:10:32 AM PDT by bvw
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To: daviddennis
Does this have to do with the patterns affecting wind, geothermal or solar power?

That is not the reason.

There are four potential reasons, and I don't know which it is.

(1)Places like Arizona, when they sell power to California don't need as much themselves in the morning, so they are willing to sell more to California in the morning.

(2)If you look at another post I made of the dynamic limits on the California Oregon Intertie capacity you will see that it varies by several hundred MW's of capacity. Generally the hotter it is out side the less capacity a transmission line or a major power transformer has. (It has to do with heat transfer out of the device into the air.) Also the dynamic transmission capacity could be linked to PNW loads as well and the load flow on the PNW transmission system (more likely explaination). The bottom line is that transmission capacity for imported power into California can be a function of temperature and/or load, which both roughly correlate to time of day.

(3)Most power plants produce more power when it is cold outside. A Combustion turbine (CT) is a mass-flow machine and hence the colder the more massive the air the more power. Some CT's actually have air conditioning units to chill the air that goes into them. Not real efficient but sometimes cost effective. Other thermal plants that use cooling towers, can operate at higher power levels when they can get colder recirculating water back from the cooling tower and pull a larger vacuum in their turbine condensing section. Thermo dynamics. Again, the temperature of the day is roughly correlated to the time of the day.

(4) The ISO could line up a lot of power and then decide it doesn't want to pay for it all day long and releases it during the course of the day, trying to figure out just the minimum amount they need (and guessing wrong declares and emergency). If this happened the power would find a home somewhere else and if the price got high enough (remember it is still capped) it would find a way back to California. This happened a lot in 2000 and 2001.

Again, I am not sure what the real reason is, but it surely isn't wind paterns or variability at solar power stations.

11 posted on 07/11/2002 7:17:25 AM PDT by Robert357
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To: daviddennis; Dog Gone; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Robert357
You asked the right people re the power availibility.

Re the so called alternative power sources. There really ain't any. Alternative Energy sources are the code words of the Envirals that we are going to severely limit your life style for our agendas. We will cover a lot of those agendas under the guise of Alternative Energy Sources.

Alternative Energy is the Sugar Plum Myth that the Enviral Whackos have sold us as they stopped California from building any new plants basically since MoonBeam became governor. There are no real alternatives, just their Bravo Sierra saying that there are Alternative Energy Sources.

My way to help on the supply curve is simple. Every Enviral Whacko office building, home, and businesses if they have any, could no longer receive power from PG&E and any other real power source. So just drop all power going to card carrying whacksos and those who have donated to Club Sierra the past 10 years. If you love Club Sierra and donate to them, you have to get your energy from Club Sierra and its vast amounts of Alternative Energy Supplies.

Last but not least the power source that saved our bacon last year and this year is the terrible Nuclear Energy. All who hate Nuclear Energy should be forced to cut down about 10% of their power useage each day. If they run over 90% over last year, their power gets cut off.

I'm the same way with people who hate Big Oil. Good, then all Big Oil haters can buy their gasoline and oil from Club Sierra. That would help the rest of us. In the mean time all who hate Big Oil should have to bike or walk to where ever they need to go until we have some new refineries and MTBE out of our gasoline.

13 posted on 07/11/2002 7:21:42 AM PDT by Grampa Dave
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