[Howlin]

Klayman said Cheney was the defacto president, meaning Bush is NOT the president.

Now, do you or do you not agree with him?

[Howlin]

KLAYMAN: Well, and if you believe that, we're in deep trouble in the war against terrorism. This is a hands-on vice president. He is the de facto president. And he runs this country, in effect. He's a very sharp guy. He's known for his hands-on management style, particularly when he was secretary of defense during the Persian Gulf War.