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To: discostu
I was born in a family that was leaving the Catholic church, and clerical celibacy was one of the reasons, as my mom regularly put it: how can someone who avoids the bond of romantic love, someone that has never and will never enter into the relationship of marriage, someone that will never rear children, how can this person give any useful advice to his parishioners on the problems that are most common in their life (ie problems with the marriage and kids)?

Why did your family really leave the Church?

The idea that only a married man with kids can give Christian advice is the exact type of thinking that leads women to believe that only a woman can act as a therepist to women, blacks to believe that only a black can represent blacks in Congress, etc.

It is repugnant to the idea that we are all formed in the image of God.

SD

54 posted on 01/03/2002 8:34:09 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
Why did your family really leave the Church?

Lots of reasons, Vatican II contributed. Basically it was a loss of faith in the Church. I never meant to imply that clerical celibacy was the only reason we left, I'm sorry if you got that impression.

The idea that only a married man with kids can give Christian advice is the exact type of thinking that leads women to believe that only a woman can act as a therepist to women, blacks to believe that only a black can represent blacks in Congress, etc.

You're misunderstanding what I said. Clearly anyone that is well grounded in the faith can give Christian advice. But how can some one that has never been married help me apply the Bible to marital problems? They can quote it and interpret it all they want but unless they're in a position to give practicle advice, relate their experiences and what did and did not work for them the advice is all theory. It's not at all like only women can provide therapy for women or blacks represent blacks, those things are physiological not experiental. It's more like how only cops really understand cops, only people that have served in the military understand what it means to be a soldier. Someone that has never been married cannot understand marriage.

It is repugnant to the idea that we are all formed in the image of God.

Absolutely. The idea that color and race make us so different we can't understand each other is foolish. But we must experience makes all of us different from each and advice must come from common ground. No one that has not had the experience of something can offer up good advice on how other can better survive that same thing. I cannot tell people how to deal with the problems that arise from limb paralysis because I've never dealt with it, I can offer general support and a friendly ear, but I can't say "do this" because I don't know anything about it. Someone that has never had to reopen the lines of communication with a spouse cannot instruct on how to reopen lines of communication with a spouse, they have no praticle experience and anything they say on the subject is just something they've been told or read.

One must also remember that during the time period my family was growing away from the Church was a time when the Church frowned upon external counciling. At that time married Catholic with issues at home were instructed to NOT seek outside marriage councilors, but to only discuss these things with their priest. Your priest was supposed to be the entire support network, if you sought assistance from others you were being a bad Catholic, and unfortunately priests just can't give good advice on some stuff. Nobody is good at everything, and the severely limited experiences of priests severely limit the things they are good at.

63 posted on 01/03/2002 9:20:03 AM PST by discostu
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To: SoothingDave; discostu
1. A priest grows up in a family.

2. A priest can provide unbiased advice and counsel not jaded by his own self-serving theory or philosphy (which he would have if he were himself married). He can be truly neutral and advocate for the gospel virtues rather than his personal proclivities.

3. A family that leaves the church because "a priest can't give advice about marriage" is a family that never cared that much about the gospel or the Church anyway.

168 posted on 01/06/2002 6:09:02 AM PST by Notwithstanding
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