Time to Abolish Clerical Celibacy

frontpagemag.com ^ | January 3, 2002 | Jamie Glazov

[sinkspur]

Besides the sexual aspect, celibacy demands that priests refrain from the intimacy of heart and mind that leads to physical expression.

THAT was the the most difficult thing for me; and, having enjoyed my wife as my best friend for 26 years, I am glad I made the choice I made.

[oldironsides]

We greeted a new priest at our parish. He arrived at our new church built to replace a very old small church. He came from some boys home maybe in PA. The chain smoking fellow had a poor disposition and obvious dislike for females. It took the teenagers a minute to figure out when they wanted a car wash or dance to never ever send a girl to ask him. I will not go into detail about this man. He left rather abruptly after someone finally called or wrote the Cardinal. He was there long enough to cause all sorts of problems. He has probably been recycled into another trusting parish. I am more angry with the Bishop for allowing this man near our family.

[Askel5]

celibacy demands that priests refrain from the intimacy of heart and mind that leads to physical expression.

The sacerdotal privilege of offering the sacrifice of the Mass and presiding over the transubstantiation of the Eucharist surely runs a poor second to the physical affection, intimacy of heart and mind that comes from absolute commitment to and union with a mere mortal as opposed to Christ?

I don't see how it gets more physical than the Eucharist, Sinkspur. I don't see how it gets more intimate than a single-minded devotion to Christ wherein ones life in Christ cannot help but spill over and often profoundly affect all with whom one comes in contact.

Your marriage has the substantively life-changing effect on others that the Eucharist or charism of a Holy Order does?

[Askel5]

that married Protestant clergy commit child sexual abuse at the same rates as celibate Catholic clergy

Judging from Rivero's research posted time and again here, Catholics priests actually appear to fall behind in this respect on the average.

I've always wanted to follow-up with a more objective source ... although it's true, strangely enough, that Rivero was a Catholic-basher extraordinnaire.

[TomB]

how can someone who avoids the bond of romantic love, someone that has never and will never enter into the relationship of marriage, someone that will never rear children, how can this person give any useful advice to his parishioners on the problems that are most common in their life (ie problems with the marriage and kids)?

Following your logic, a therapist or psychiatrist cannot properly diagnose and treat ailments he/she has not suffered from.

I've seen this argument many times, and it does not hold water. It would mean that an unmarried priest couldn't give advice about marriage. And a married priest without kids couldn't give advice on child rearing. Of course, a married priest with only boys could not give advice on raising girls. Yet we don't require licensed marriage counselors to be married.

You see, you can twist that logic into many empty justifications.

[st.smith]

how can someone who avoids the bond of romantic love, someone that has never and will never enter into the relationship of marriage, someone that will never rear children, how can this person give any useful advice to his parishioners on the problems that are most common in their life (ie problems with the marriage and kids)?

Priests are privy to people's innermost confessions. They receive information that is often not transmitted even between spouses. They can provide the kind of insight which can only come from one who is an outsider to the relationship. Whether that advice comes from one who is married or not is irrelevant. Who would you rather receive marital advice from: Pope John Paul II, who is celibate, or Bill Clinton, who as we all know is married?

Furthermore, do you ever advise anyone? Using your standard you can never really do so, as you will never experience what it is to be subjectively in their shoes.

[sinkspur]

The sacerdotal privilege of offering the sacrifice of the Mass and presiding over the transubstantiation of the Eucharist surely runs a poor second to the physical affection, intimacy of heart and mind that comes from absolute commitment to and union with a mere mortal as opposed to Christ?

Ask the nearly 100 converts from Anglicanism to Catholicism who are both priests AND married.

Celibacy is not a theological requirement for the Catholic priesthood, and none of your usual contortions you try to wrap around it will make it so.

The Church is bending its celibacy requirement, and will bend it more in the future.

Your marriage has the substantively life-changing effect on others that the Eucharist or charism of a Holy Order does?

I don't know. Ask my two grown boys.

[Mannaggia l'America]

If you don't believe it, then try not having sex for a couple of years and see what kind of thoughts start to go running through your head.

Sounds like you have experience... ;-)

I know people who are not priests and who have not had sex for years - either by choice or they just can't get any. Some are even married!! I can't say what thoughts go through their heads, but they certainly don't commit any crimes because of it.

[Romulus]

If Mary was always a virgin, Joseph would be the greatest saint who ever lived.

Joseph was a great guy -- he doesn't get enough credit (I think he's OK with that, BTW). But are you are seriously suggesting that Mary's concomittent sacrifice is somehow less?

[Romulus]

If Mary was always a virgin, Joseph would be the greatest saint who ever lived.

Joseph was a great guy -- he doesn't get enough credit (I think he's OK with that, BTW). But are you are seriously suggesting that Mary's concomittent sacrifice is somehow less?

[Orual]

The Church is bending its celibacy requirement, and will bend it more in the future.

I see, still wrong about your favorite subject. I don't know to which "Church" you refer, but it's not the true Roman Catholic Church. Perhaps, "Catholics for a Free Choice" will agree with you - you know, that group that's putting up the ads for condoms? They like to make their own rules, too.

[B-Chan]

I'm doubtful about the idea of allowing unmarried priests to marry. That being said, our parish priest (indeed, our entire parish!) is ex-Episcopalian, and he's still married. You'd have to look far and wide to find a priest more orthodox and obedient to the Magisterium than our Father H! No altar girls, lady Eucharistic ministers, clown Masses, etc. at our church -- just the grandeur of the Anglican Usage of the Roman Rite.

[Orual]

"Hello, dear, have a hard time at Mass today?"

"The kids are driving me nuts. You've got to do sometlhing about that son of yours. He's getting to be a real discipline problem. You never spend any time with him, your Catechism kids get more attention than he does."

"Mrs. McNeil called, she wants you to make a sick call, but we've got to have dinner with the Prior and his wife. I can't stand her, but..."

"And that hot, blonde babe called again and wants a conference to discuss her so-called problems. Yeh, sure. Stay away from her or else."

"Hear anything good in the Confessional today? Loved that story you told me about that guy last week...funny as heck."

"How do you expect me to run a house on the pay you get? You'd better find a part-time job. I'm tired of all this scrimping and scraping."

"When are you going to get a vasectomy? I don't want any more kids and look around you, rhythm doesn't work and it's so unspontaneous."

[sinkspur]

I see, still wrong about your favorite subject. I don't know to which "Church" you refer, but it's not the true Roman Catholic Church.

I refer to the Roman Catholic Church in union with Pope John Paul II, not the schismatic Society of St. Pius X, which is a sect unto itself and is outside the Roman Catholic Church.

[st.smith]

They can quote it and interpret it all they want but unless they're in a position to give practicle advice, relate their experiences and what did and did not work for them the advice is all theory. It's not at all like only women can provide therapy for women or blacks represent blacks, those things are physiological not experiental. It's more like how only cops really understand cops, only people that have served in the military understand what it means to be a soldier. Someone that has never been married cannot understand marriage.

The problem with your theory is that most people do not understand cops as other cops do because they are not familiar with them. However, take for example someone who works closely with police, and yet is not a policeman- say someone who trains them. Are you saying that such a person could not have great insight into what it is to be a cop- better than even many who actually are cops?

[Myrddin]

1 Timothy 4:1-3

1. Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2. Speaking lies in hypocrisy having their conscience seared with a hot iron
3. Forbidding to marry and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with of them which believe and know the truth.

[Orual]

I refer to the Roman Catholic Church in union with Pope John Paul II, not the schismatic Society of St. Pius X, which is a sect unto itself and is outside the Roman Catholic Church.

Now, now, sinkspur. You know that's not true. It is you who are outside the Roman Catholic Church. How old is your new "church" - about 40 years old, I think. Mine is around 2,000 years old, unchanged and unchangeable. You must miss that dignity and grace.

[sinkspur]

Now, now, sinkspur. You know that's not true. It is you who are outside the Roman Catholic Church.

You're delusional on this subject.

The SSPX is OUTSIDE the Roman Catholic Church because it is NOT in union with the Pope.

Convolutions, shadings, distortions, protestations notwithstanding.

[AndrewSshi]

If you didn't agree, your wife was abducted and sold into slavery.

Cite, please? (And no, Chick Publications is not a valid source).

[Myrddin]

3.Forbidding to marry and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.