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To: Theresa
He called them "his father in faith," because he brought them the gospel. He never told them to call him father.
328 posted on 01/07/2002 12:15:13 PM PST by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
"He called them "his father in faith," because he brought them the gospel. He never told them to call him father."

Well he never told them not to call him father either. I stole the below passages from a thread on the internet where the father controvery was being discussed. You are interpreting the passage too strictly. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. In these passages below Christians were calling other Christians, and old Testament persons father.

"I write unto you, FATHERS, because ye have known him..." (1 Jn 2:13) "I write unto you, FATHERS, because ye have known him..." (v. 14)

"For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not MANY FATHERS: for in Christ Jesus I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU [i.e. become your FATHER] through the gospel....

"...as a SON [Timothy] with the FATHER [Paul], he hath served with me in the gospel" (Phil 2:22 KJV)

"we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a FATHER doth his children" (1 Thess 2:11 KJV)

"Look unto ABRAHAM YOUR FATHER, and unto Sarah that bare you: For I called him alone, and blessed him and increased him." (Isaiah 51:2 KJV)

Neither Paul nor Abraham literally "fathered" -- in the sense of human fatherhood -- all those believers that would come after them. Paul was not the natural father of Timothy. He was his spiritual or RELIGIOUS "father." That is the basis of the Catholic teaching.

Your interpretation of Christ's words in Matthew 23:8-11 therefore cannot be correct. Christ was engaging in hyperbole, as he often did, and attacked the MISUSE or ABUSE of the title "father." He was specifically talking about the Pharisees who

"love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets, and to be CALLED OF MEN, RABBI, RABBI. But be not ye called Rabbi..." (Matthew 23:6-8 KJV)

Jesus was a faithful Jew and he certainly wasn't condemning the mere use of the title "Rabbi" which means "Master" or "Teacher" -- a title still used by Jewish people today. He was specifically condemning the improper use of the title for the Pharisees who were hypocrites "for they SAY, but DO not" (Matthew 23:3 KJV).

The same with the title "father." There is nothing inherently wrong with calling a MAN "father" (as proven with all the verses I quoted for you) whether natural fathers, ancestral fathers, or even spiritual fathers (as Paul was) -- so long as we recognize that it is the FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ "of whom the whole family [or all FATHERHOOD] in HEAVEN and EARTH is NAMED" (Eph 3:14-15; cf. Matthew 23:9).

But if I understand you correctly, you said calling a man "father" in a "religious sense" is wrong. Is that so? MATTHEW 23:30 -- "And say, if we had been in the days of OUR FATHERS..." LUKE 16:24,30 -- "And he cried and said, FATHER Abraham.....And he said, nay, FATHER Abraham...." ACTS 7 : 2,11,12,15,32,38,39,44,45,51,52 -- "Men, brethren, and FATHERS...unto our FATHER Abraham" (v. 2) "...and our FATHERS found no sustenance" (v. 11) "...he sent out our FATHERS first" (v. 12) "So Jacob went down into Egypt, and died, he, and our FATHERS" (v. 15) "Saying, I am the God of thy FATHERS, the God of Abraham...." (v. 32) "spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our FATHERS..." (v. 38) "To whom our FATHERS would not obey..." (v. 39) "Our FATHERS had the tabernacle..." (v. 44) "...our FATHERS that came after...before the face of our FATHERS" (v. 45) "as your FATHERS did, so do ye" (v. 51) "Which of the prophets have not your FATHERS persecuted?" (v. 52)

"Men, brethren, and FATHERS...." (Acts 22:1) "...according to the perfect manner of the law of the FATHERS" (v. 3) "And he said, the God of our FATHERS hath chosen thee" (v. 14)

"...so worship I the God of my FATHERS..." (Acts 24:14)

"...hope of the promise made of God unto our FATHERS..." (Acts 26:6)

"...nothing against the people, or customs of our FATHERS" (Acts 28:17)

"What shall we say then that Abraham our FATHER..." (Rom 4:1) "...that he might be the FATHER of all them that believe..." (v. 11) "...the FATHER of circumcision...faith of our FATHER Abraham" (v. 12) "...the faith of Abraham; who is the FATHER of us all" (v. 16) "I have made thee a FATHER of many nations" (v. 17,18)

"yet have ye not many FATHERS: for in Christ Jesus I have BEGOTTEN you [or "become your FATHER"] through the gospel" (1 Cor 4:15)

"...not that ye should be IGNORANT, how that all our FATHERS" (1 Cor 10:1)

"...exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my FATHERS" (Gal 1:14)

"...as a son [Timothy] with the FATHER [Paul], he hath served with me in the gospel" (Phil 2:22)

"we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a FATHER doth his children" (1 Thess 2:11)

"Unto Timothy, MY OWN SON IN THE FAITH [that makes Paul his FATHER IN THE FAITH]" (1 Tim 1:2,18)

"Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a FATHER" (1 Tim 5:1)

"To Timothy, my DEARLY BELOVED SON [again, that makes Paul his SPIRITUAL FATHER IN THE FAITH]" (2 Tim 1:2; 2:1)

"To Titus, MINE OWN SON AFTER THE COMMON FAITH [once again, that makes Paul his SPIRITUAL FATHER IN THE FAITH]" (Titus 1:4)

"...received by tradition from your FATHERS" (1 Peter 1:18)

"...the FATHERS fell asleep, all things continue..." (2 Pet 3:4)

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339 posted on 01/07/2002 1:30:16 PM PST by Theresa
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