Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation??

There is considerable confusion about the Catholic teaching of salvation. I found this on the internet. It was written by a former Presbyterian who became Catholic as an adult. It should be easy to understand he explains the docterine very well. .........

The phrase (in Latin, "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" or "Outside the Church there is no salvation") is a very ancient one, going back to the very early days of Christianity. It was originally meant to affirm the necessity of baptism and Christian faith at a time when

(a) A number of Christians were being tempted under torture to renounce their faith and deny Christ. (He's talking about the Roman Empire and Nero's persecution of Christians, throwing them to lions and such.) (b) Large groups of Christians were being led into "pseudo-Christian" cult-type groups, which were actually just a front for pagan philosophy and religion. (Such as the cult of Mithras which I think was practiced around the time after Jesus died.)

In response, bishops repeated that, if a person were to be aware of the meaning of Christ and then freely deny him or reject him, they had essentially turned away from God and the salvation he offers.

As Christians, we believe that we are saved only through Jesus. As St. Peter reminds his audience in Acts 4:12: "There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among mortals by which we must be saved." In most cases, this means that we believe baptism in water, in the name of the Trinity, is the fundamental requirement for salvation.

However, even from the beginning, the great Christian writer and teacher St. Augustine said that the salvation imparted through baptism can also be imparted through other means: specifically, through the "baptism of blood" (a non-Christian who dies defending Christian beliefs or holy places) and "the baptism of desire" (a non-Christian who has expressed a firm desire to become a Christian, and who shows all the signs of living a Christian life, but who dies before baptism). In both of those cases, the Church has always recognized that the Holy Spirit leads people to God in ways which we cannot always explain or document.

God is able to save anyone he chooses. We trust that he often does this is ways that are not obvious to us, within the hearts of individuals who are sincerely seeking the truth. Otherwise, it would imply that all of humanity was excluded from salvation before Christ came, and that much of humanity (which has not had the opportunity to hear the Christian message until recently) was doomed to be eternally separated from God. This would imply a very cruel and elitist God. Our belief as Christians and Catholics is that God desires the salvation of all people … even those who are not Christian. How he achieves that, however, is a mystery. But we know that our God is a loving God who would not allow people to suffer on account of an ignorance that they were not responsible for.

The Church teaches that baptism, faith, and a life lived in Christ are necessary for salvation. However, Vatican II also taught that, within every human heart, God places the law of conscience. Everybody has a deep sense of right and wrong which ultimately comes from God, and which will lead people to God if they attempt to follow their conscience faithfully. Because Jesus is God, those who move in the direction of God (even non-Christians) are ultimately moving in the direction of Jesus. And if they are moving in the direction of Jesus and His truth, ultimately they are expressing a desire for the salvation that God gives. The Church teaches that, while it is certainly easier to receive salvation as a Christian, it is not impossible to receive salvation in other religions.

This is a challenging situation: on one hand, we must be respectful of the good things to be found in other faiths, and encourage people to live their faiths with sincerity and love.

On the other hand, this does not mean that all religions are the same. We believe that Christ is the ultimate revealing of God to the world, and that the more we know about his message, the greater the chance that we will accept his offer and be saved. We must therefore continue to preach the message of the Gospel, and encourage interested non-Catholics to examine the claims of our faith, without in any way coercing or intimidating them.

Father Feeney was an American priest who, back in the 1940s, taught that if a person was not a Roman Catholic, they were condemned to hell. This has never been the accepted teaching of Catholicism, and Father Feeney was reprimanded by the Vatican for his mistaken understanding.

Nevertheless, there are groups which continue to hold to this strict interpretation, even after the Pope and bishops have specifically rejected it.

The phrase "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" teaches us that salvation is only through Christ, the Way, the Truth and the Life. But God is able to save whomever he pleases, whether they are baptized in the Roman Catholic Church or not.

It is important to remember that "the Church" in this phrase does not refer exclusively to the Roman Catholic Church. Salvation is a great gift, and God is a loving Father who wants all of his children to receive it. How he works this out, however, we will only understand in heaven. That is why, whenever we quote "Outside the Church, there is no salvation", we should also remember that "God is in no way bound by the sacraments."

Until then, we continue to proclaim Jesus as Lord (evangelization) and engage in respectful dialogue with followers of other religions, to discover the truths that God had revealed to them to guide them toward salvation, and to share with them the truth as we have discovered it in Christ.

It is same purpose as this web site I just found. It is a Protestant site that reminds me a lot of the Catholic Stations of the Cross. You should visit it you will like it a lot!!

http://members.tripod.com/~C_Verge/Easter/easter.html

And here is a Catholic site with the traditional Stations of the Cross.

http://www.catholic.org/prayer/station.html

About the grace. Oh gosh let's not go there. Catholics and Protestants have different views on grace too. Prayer helps us all. I know we agree on that! Someday we need to do a thread on all the things we agree on.

I am really not trying to be atgonistic here, will you answer me one question, please. Have you read each of these verses in context? I went thru the first couple, and in context none of them are using the word Father as catholics do when addressing a priest. Could you please answer my question? Thanks.

Becky

It is same purpose as this web site I just found.

Either I don't understand your answer or you didn't understand the question, which is probably my fault:) What is the purpose of participating in the service that is called the stations of the cross?

On a thread about what we all agree on. I saw one just today, but I can't remember the title, but if I see it again I will bump it to you. The article was 99.9% right:)IMO.

Becky

I said: I pray to Jesus and only Jesus. He intercedes to God on our behalf - and I need no one, including the Mother of Christ to get His ear.

you said: Well then you should never ask anyone to pray to Jesus for you. Because if you do, you are using other people to get His ear.

Anyone can pray to Jesus for anything - including other people - however I think you already knew that and were just twisting the comment to inflame me- perhaps I misunderstood you.

To clarify, I dont have to pray to Mary, who will then whisper in the ear of Jesus on my behalf. I can pray directly to Him and He hears me. You are welcome to do otherwise. My point was, anyone can pray directly to Jesus, without the aid of the Blessed Virgin Mother.

May He richly bless you.

I will add, that I do not hate Catholics. I have posted several pro-Cath articles here and especially enjoy the encyclicals as sound theology, differing only on the Latin mass, and the issue previously discussed. I particularly relish the stance on human life. regards

Roman Catholics believe devout Muslims are saved.????

Do you mean Roman Catholics believe Osama and the all murderous terrorist are going to be saved? After all they (terrorist) must be very devout Muslims to commit suicide in order to kill others.
Unless you are talking about a special kind o "Catholics" very influential in US who defend and promote homosexuality, are openly pro-death, and at the same time receive holy communion every day, not to mention they elected Clinton, mainly cause their degenerate priests told them to do so.

"Necromancer" From a Greek word meaning to divine with the dead; one who tries to cmmunicate with the dead."

Are you a Seventh Day Adventist? Just tell me now because I don't want to waste my energy. Anyway Mary is not dead. She is has eternal life in heaven with Jesus. And Catholics are taugh by the Catholic Church not to consult with fortune tellers and the like. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

"All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to "unveil" the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone." (Catechism, #2116)

Are you a Seventh Day Adventist? Just tell me now because I don't want to waste my energy. Anyway Mary is not dead.

No I am not a Seventh Day Adventist, just a Fundamental Bible Believer:)

Why would you be wasting energy talking to one?

Do you have scripture to back up your statement about Mary?

Becky

I do not presume to understand everything in the bible. I guess you do.

I do! or at least I can find out whenever I need to. I happen to be acquainted with the author. If you would like to know Him too, I believe Becky could introduce you. I do not mean this to be either rude or presumptuous, but your response suggests to me, you have not really met Him yet.

Hank

"I went thru the first couple, and in context none of them are using the word Father as catholics do when addressing a priest. "

Okay what is your impression of the context in which Catholic call priests father? And we don't always call priests father. You can call them by their first name if you want to. Most don't mind. They don't call each other father all the time. They call each other by their first names. It's not a command to call a priest father. It's not a sin if you don't. It's not a sin if you do.

The whole thing is a tempest in a teapot.

"I do have faith that as I study God's word the HS will show me what I need to know. It's funny how I can read over a passage numerous times and see no significant message for me in it, that one day bam it has special meaning that works in my life at that moment. "

Wow! I sure would not argue with this. I was not referring to seeking and finding inspiration as private interpretation.

Since you like Eph. try 4:23.

And for extra credit, to make the point that you must "live" as you "believe", try:
John 3:5,
Titus 3:5,
I Cor 9:27,
Hebrews 10:26,
Philippians 2:12,
2 Cor 5:10,
Rom 2:6, 11:22, 5.2, 8:24,
Col 2:23.

We believe that priests share in the fatherhood of God. Here is something from the catechism: "Through the ordained ministry, especially that of bishops and priests, the presence of Christ as head of the church is made visible in the midst of the community of believers. In the beautiful expression of St. Ignatius of Antioch, the bishop is typos tou Patros: he is like the living image of God the Father."

Scripture is loaded with people calling others "Father", here is a scripture verse by St. Paul "For this cause I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom all paternity in heaven and earth is named" (Eph. 3, 14-15)

The priesthood is a spiritual fatherhood.

"I will add, that I do not hate Catholics. I have posted several pro-Cath articles here and especially enjoy the encyclicals as sound theology, differing only on the Latin mass, and the issue previously discussed. I particularly relish the stance on human life. regards"

Oh I never thought you hated Catholics. I find a lot of inspiration in Protestant devotions. I especially like many of the Protestant hymns and songs. One of my very favorites is Lord of the Dance. It is an old Shaker song I believe.

"Why would you be wasting energy talking to one? "

Oh gosh LOL! I spent three months debating one. It would be waste of energy for a Baptist or a Methodist to debate one too. You just have to have gone through it to know what I am talking about.

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