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To: billbears
re:
"...Interesting that you should say that. I would refer you to
the constitutions of Missouri, North Carolina, South Carolina,
Virginia, and Massachusetts just to name a few. All of those
constitutions required said affirmation. Only until the
14th Amendment destroyed those states' rights(which the
War of Southern Independence was fought over) did such
'tests' as you call them become outlawed. Jefferson himself
in several letters to those of his home state and as noted in
the Anti-Federalist papers recommended that states establish
said church as was predominant in their population
...."

You can rant and make all the claims you'd like, but the very
simple facts remain. Any state can pass any charters, legislation
or "constitutions" they'd like, and those states may require all
people in that state to comply. But when those "requirements"
are finally brought before the Supreme Court on a claim of
non-compliance, they must then be found to conform to our
Constitution's mandates, or they must be changed.

A state cannot outlaw freedom of speech. It cannot outlaw
the ownership of firearms. It cannot deny the freedom of the
practicing of a specific religion privately or in congregation.
It cannot deny legal due process. Etc etc etc etc. It can pass
legislation, change it's constitution or attempt to regulate those
very things; and it can force those in that state to comply, until
the matter of conflict between these laws and our Constitution's
mandates are resolved.

I would very strongly suggest you refrain from using Jefferson
as a model of religious promotion in our country. He has denounced
religious practice and the promotion of it many, many times throughout
his era.

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature" .
Thomas Jefferson

"It does me not injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty
gods or not god. Neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
Thomas Jefferson

 

Thanks.

21 posted on 12/23/2001 5:12:38 AM PST by Deep_6
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To: Deep_6
Article XIX, Sec. 1, of the Arkansas constitution: "No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any court."

Article 37 of Maryland's constitution provides that "no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of Almighty God" (emphasis added).

Article I, Sec. 4, of Pennsylvania's constitution is more insidious: "No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust under this Commonwealth

But when those "requirements" are finally brought before the Supreme Court on a claim of non-compliance, they must then be found to conform to our Constitution's mandates, or they must be changed

And you sir can rant all you want but BEFORE the 14th Amendment to the Constitution was passed, these requirements stood as the standard to hold public office. As a matter of fact,the Arkansas anti-atheist provision survived a federal court challenge as recently as 1982. Only Maryland's provision has been explicitly overturned by the Supreme Court, at that was in 1961. The issue was never raised in federal courts before 1865 because it was understood the states had the right to make these decisions. If your argument held true then the writers of the state constitution would not have put them in there time and time again knowing that they would be overturned by federal courts. Ah, but they weren't were they? Not until the passage of your 14th Amendment.

Once an Amendment is passed, it is as much of our Constitution than the original script, and is to be assumed as valid. [see amendment 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 etc]

So I guess you agree with the 16th and 17th Amendments just fine, both of which destroyed the last vestiges of the Republic and the ideals of the Founders in writing said document? The 17th Amendment didn't just change the Constitution, it destroyed what was left of it after the 16th president trampled over it. It turned a Federal Republic into a true democracy, something the Founders never had in mind. Oh, but it is as valid as the original script. < /sarcasm> What about Prohibition? That was an Amendment but overturned less than two decades later. If your argument holds true, then we wouldn't have alcohol. But it was overturned because in reality it was just another fine example of the federal government at work, acting without thinking

25 posted on 12/23/2001 8:04:51 AM PST by billbears
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