Posted on 12/22/2001 4:59:50 AM PST by DAGO
"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more
perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility,
provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,
and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our
posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the
United States of America."
I'm always amazed at the suggestion that our forefathers did not
believe this country should provide certain benefits to all, for the
good of all, at the expense of all.
To form a union [group; society] and provide help as a whole to
all that live as part of our union, is fairly clear in the preamble.
It's the exaggeration of the intent; the providing of certain "benefits"
that do not truly of benefit all citizens. It is the providing of certain
services that are not promoting the general welfare, but only the
bank accounts of those distributing those "benefits" [ala' Joe Kennedy
and Mass Oil], that we lose sight of our Constitution's intent.
But to claim that "public schooling", "the food and drug industry",
or other matters of concern [environmental] that effect our entire
Nation's welfare in it's whole, should be exempted from control;
that it is "socialistic" to put any control upon it, is sheer folly.
You can't guarantee our Constitution's intent if you disregard
it's intent.
The "general welfare," the phrase most usually seized upon by social-welfare-fascists to justify their incursions on freedom, has only one conceivable meaning: the defense of all rights to life, liberty and property. Once you try to interpret the phrase as a license to invade any individual's rights, or the rights of any group of individuals however defined, for the benefit of some other group, be it larger or smaller, you have excluded the victimized group from the "general welfare."
Not one of the Framers would have approved of any of the things you appear to want to justify, except that Jefferson would have approved of government-run schools. (All right, the man was a genius, but he was wrong now and then, too.) An income tax? Zoning? Laws that dictate who may sell what, and what standards it must meet? Not a chance. Those were the precise things they rebelled against England for imposing upon them.
You don't think so? Look it up. Look up the Pine Tree Act. Look up the various acts that forbade Americans to trade with non-English firms on any basis. As for government-run schools, all but Jefferson would have shied back in horror, noting immediately that no other conceivable organ of State propaganda could possibly be as effective at producing docile and submissive subjects as a State school.
Let's have an end to this "general welfare" BS. There are only individuals and their rights. Trample anyone's rights -- which do NOT include a right to anything that belongs to any other man, nor a right to anything that someone else must produce for him -- and you lose the entire point of the American Constitutional enterprise.
Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit the Palace Of Reason: http://palaceofreason.com
1963 Communist Goals
1)US acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2)US willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
3) Develop the illusion that total disarmament by the US would be a demonstration of "moral strength".
4) Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war. 5) Extension of long term loans to Russia and Soviet Satellites.
6) Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
7) Grant recognition of Red China, and admission of Red China to the UN.
8) Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the Germany question by free elections under supervision of the UN.
9) Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the US has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
10) Allow all Soviet Satellites individual representation in the UN.
11) Promote the UN as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the UN as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.
12) Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
13) Do away with loyalty oaths.
14) Continue giving Russia access to the US Patent Office.
15) Capture one or both of the political parties in the US.
16) Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions, by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
17) Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for Socialism, and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers associations. Put the party line in text books.
18) Gain control of all student newspapers.
19) Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack. 20) Infiltrate the press. Get control of book review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.
21) Gain control of key positions in radio, TV & motion pictures.
22) Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all form of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings", substitute shapeless,awkward, and meaningless forms.
23) Control art critics and directors of art museums. " Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art".
24) Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.
25) Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography, and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio and TV.
26) Present Homosexuality, degeneracy, and promiscuity as "normal, natural, and healthy".
27) Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch".
28) Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the grounds that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state".
29) Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
30) Discredit the American founding fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man".
31) Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of "the big picture:" Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
32) Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture - - education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc. 33) Eliminate all laws or procedures, which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
34) Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
35) Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
36) Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
37) Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
38) Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand or treat.
39) Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
40) Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
41) Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents.
Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
42) Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special interest groups should rise up and make a "united force" to solve economic, political,or social problems.
43) Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
44) Internationalize the Panama Canal.
45) Repeal the Connally Reservation so the US can not prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction over nations and individuals alike.
This Country was founded under the ideals of everyone having the OPPORTUNITY to provide form themselves and their families, not on the premise that the "public" would provide support for same. Thing is, now those that ARE willing to work are having their labors confiscated to provide for those who will not and, historically, private enterprise (churches, charitable organizations) provided for those who COULD NOT. The premise of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is the problem we are burdened with today by (what is supposed to be) OUR government and is rooted in communism.
When the government fears the people, there is freedom. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Tell me who ISN'T afraid of the IRS, the BATF, the BLM, etc., etc., who may have reason to cross paths with them and we'll find out pretty quickly who fears whom.
Interesting that you should bring up 'public schooling' because it was not in the Founders' intent and was not established until 1867, and the passage of the infamous 14th Amendment, which also BTW destroyed the rights of the states requiring elected officials to recognize Almighty God(as outlined in many state constitutions). The only place federally funded schooling had ever been mentioned before this time was in the Northwest Ordinance and was mainly aimed at Indian children to teach them English
None of this matters. We have a REPUBLICAN in the White House. :)
WOW!!!!!!Very wise words!!!!
COMRADE DAGOSAVITCH
COMMUNIST AGENT
OCCUPIED USSA
BWAHAHAHAA
Thanks for the laugh.
And wonderful insight also, that anyone [like Jefferson] that
disagrees with your purported vast knowledge of our
forefather's intent, is an idiot. [palace of reason....hahaha]
Rather than purported, it is perverted; twisted, your assumption
that the requiring of standards of quality should be deemed
"unconstitutional". I would agree [as I stated], that there has been
an exaggeration of the intent, but the basis is on solid ground.
I said:
"..It's the exaggeration of the intent; the providing of certain "benefits"
that do not truly of benefit all citizens. It is the providing of certain
services that are not promoting the general welfare, but only the
bank accounts of those distributing those "benefits" [ala' Joe Kennedy
and Mass Oil], that we lose sight of our Constitution's intent....."
You apparently missed that?
And this continual denouncing of the concept of public schooling;
the concept that all public schools conform to universal standards
of required study to provide each American child with an equal
opportunity to succeed, is ludicrous. It serves only to give
"conservatives" the appearance of being self-serving and careless
of concern for this Nation's future.
No child or person should be given benefit over another and
neither should be denied benefit. To demand universal and
conformed educational process of our public schooling, is the
correct action; you are free to pay for any other private education
you may prefer.
And there should be the teaching of Constitutional rights in
our schools. If that includes the teaching of the wrongness
of prejudicial attitudes, it is conforming closer to the teaching
of the Constitutional rights of others, than your idea of what
should be taught.
Thanks.
Once an Amendment is passed, it is as much of our Constitution
than the original script, and is to be assumed as valid. [see amendment
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 etc]
Secondly..
Our Constitution says quite clearly:
[Article 6]
"...The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the
members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and
judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states,
shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution;
but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any
office or public trust under the United States....."
Our forefathers saw fit to make certain, religion and matters of State
were as far separate as possible. Since our Constitution is precedent
over State's rights, it is all encompassing. A state's legislation cannot
supercede a Constitutional mandate. A state cannot require "elected
officials to recognize Almighty God". To do so would be unconstitutional.
Although I'm as unhappy with the state of public schooling as anyone
else, I rather demand it is fixed and restored, not torn apart and
abandoned for a less universal approach.
Thanks.
Vermont; Declaration of Rights, III (1777) " . . . nor can any man who professes the protestant religion, be justly deprived or abridged of any civil right, as a citizen, on account of his religious sentiment . . . ; nevertheless, every sect or denomination of people ought to observe the Sabbath, or the Lord's day . . . "
Vermont; Frame of Government, Section 9 (1777) "And each member [of the legislature], . . . shall make and subscribe the following declaration, viz.: 'I do believe in one god, the Creator and Governor of the universe, the rewarder of the good and punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the scriptures of the old and new testament to be given by divine inspiration, and own and profess the protestant religion .'"
"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." --John Jay, first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court
Just a few from Vermont and Tennessee. There are plenty more and most, if not all, stood as requirements until your glorious 14th Amendment
And wonderful insight also, that anyone [like Jefferson] that disagrees with your purported vast knowledge of our forefather's intent, is an idiot. [palace of reason....hahaha]
You're a real rhetorical muscleman, aren't you? Someone disagrees with you, and you immediately start calling names and putting words into other people's mouths. You must have been a real delight in the schoolyard at recess.
As for your claim that "the basis is on solid ground," I have two suggestions:
Of course, it's possible that you've merely misunderstood the impact of the Preamble to the Constitution, which a) awards no powers to any branch of government, b) speaks of a body of general desiderata in extremely flowery language, c) has been deemed by Constitutional scholars throughout history to be merely decorative. You wouldn't be the first.
As for the phrase "general welfare" in Article I, James Madison himself, the Father of the Constitution, wrote that the import of that phrase was circumscribed by the seventeen specifically awarded powers of Section 8. At the time of the Framing, there were no dissents from that view among the Framers. You can look that up too.
It serves only to give "conservatives" the appearance of being self-serving and careless of concern for this Nation's future.
Conservatives careless about the direction of America's future? Are you sure you're on the right discussion board? The URL for Democratic Underground is http://www.democraticunderground.com. Glad to be of service.
Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit the Palace Of Reason: http://palaceofreason.com
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