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To: Illbay
At least the Jews don't force their belief on others by violent, "accept our way or die" means, nor do we.

The violence of the Quaran can be denied till doomsday, the evidence is very much to the contrary. There have been many posters on FR that have posted the verses(?) from the Quaran saying it's ok to lie and decieve infidels, it's ok to kill those that refuse to embrace their religion. The Quaran goes on and on about the innocent, but you are only innocent if you embrace Islam, other than that you are an infidel. I get the feeling that anyone can take any view they want and be justified by the Quaran depending on what stage of life Muhammad was in. Or just look around the globe at present for representatives of this religion.

While they may grant Jesus status of "prophet" and "messiah", which to them means a mere mortal man, Christians do not grant Muhammad the status of prophet. Anyone that makes the claim that they must restrain themselves from performing miracles should make anyone cock an eyebrow.

While I don't know that I agree with everything on this thread "St Paul Foresaw Islam warned against Preterism" it gives an indication of what many Christians believe about Islam.

22 posted on 11/29/2001 11:06:03 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: MissAmericanPie
Jesus and Moses were not wariors either,as was Mohammed
24 posted on 11/29/2001 11:14:01 AM PST by kennyo
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To: MissAmericanPie
In Aramaic scriptures the word "paraclete" is used when talking about the "comforter" and the "advocate".

Why are there any Greek words in the "Aramaic Scriptures?" The short answer is that you were working with the "Peshitto" which is otherwise known as the West Palestinian "Peshitta" that was made to conform to the pre-Christian Septuagint of the Greek church.

We know that Jesus did not speak Greek because the Aramaic speaking people in the time of Jesus considered it sinful to speak any other language. This had to be true because the Aramaic Estrangelo Script was the lingua franca in Palestine at the time of Jesus.

Aramaic in this script is similar to Arabic and this was the language of commerce and industry. A growing number of scholars now recognize that Jesus spoke this form of Aramaic, not Greek.

The square letter Aramaic in Hebraic characters came much later. (See "Western Christian Scholars Awaken to Truth" in the Table of Contents on the Aramaic Bible Society Website). See Eusebius' "Ecclesiastical History", first published in 1928! Also, "The Age of Faith", Will and Ariel Durant's "The Story of Civilization", Vol. 4.

Trace the Biblical history of this Greek word "Paraclete". At one time the word read "Periklytos" and "Paraklytos", which is the name for "Muhammad" in Greek. Both words mean "Praised" or "Celebrate," the meaning and character of the man "Muhammad." (1 Jesus in The Qur'an, One World Publications, (c) Geoffrey Parrinder 1965, 1995, ISBN 1-85168-094-2. Knowing this, there is a need for us to study the life of Prophet Muhammad in depth to see if it all stands up.

Of special interest always is what the name for Muhammad was in his mother tongue, Palestinian Aramaic. For this we have to look to the Hebrew and Aramaic scriptures.

According to the present day Aramaic scriptures, the word for Muhammad would read "Paraqleyta" or "Paraklytos" in Greek and "Menahem" in Hebrew! In the ancient Aramaic scriptures, before these changes, it read "Ahmad," then Munahammana" which is the Aramaic/Syriac rendering for the name "Muhammad." These are names, not simply words, and they mean "Comforter" or "Muhammad" in Arabic.

There is no Aramaic dictionary where you'll find the word "Paraqleyta" because there is no such word in that language. Therefore, two questions are asked:

Why was "Periklytos" changed to "Paraklytos"?

Why was Ahmad changed to "Munahammana" and then to "Paraqleyta?"

History tells us that Muhammad was the only prophet who came shortly after Jesus and did everything Jesus said he would. Read Luke 6:40, "There is no disciple who is more important than his teacher; for every man who is well developed will be like his teacher" (Lamsa) or "The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master" (KJV).

Christians are often told that no one can go to heaven except by Jesus. This tells us that the only way anyone can go to heaven is to be Christ-like. Muhammad was such a man. Muslims make a stronger case. They say that Jesus says the only way one can be with Jesus in Heaven is to be as Him, i.e., one who submits to Alaha's Will (Aramaic), Allah's Will (Arabic). To do this is to be a Muslim! But let us return to the study of the word "Comforter."

John 16:7-13

But I tell you the truth, It is better for you that I should go away; for if I do not away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I should go, I will send him to you. And when he is come, he will rebuke the world concerning sin, concerning righteousness, and concerning Judgment. Concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; Concerning righteousness, because I go to my Father, and you will not see me again; Concerning judgment, because the leader of this world has been judged. Again, I have many other things to tell you, but you cannot grasp them now. But when the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all the truth: for he will not speak from himself, but what he hears, that he will speak: and he will make known to you things which are to come in the future. He will glorify me; because he will take of my own and show to you. Everything that my Father has is mine; this is the reason why I told you that he will take of my own and show to you. (Lamsa)

The difference between Muslims and Christians is that Muslims use the original words that Jesus and all the prophets used. In speaking of John 16:7-13, most Christians will tell you that the "Comforter" Jesus will send is the Holy Ghost. But keep in mind that the Holy Ghost was around before Jesus.

In the Aramaic we see that the translation is "Spirit." Jesus, peace be upon him, was talking about the one who would ONLY appear when He joined His Father in Heaven*. In other words, this Spirit of Truth (a man) was never around before. The man Jesus sent was Muhammad. .

31 posted on 11/29/2001 11:25:09 AM PST by Patria One
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To: MissAmericanPie
At least the Jews don't force their belief on others by violent, "accept our way or die" means, nor do we.

Some Muslims do this; some Jews do it as well, and of course Christians are INFAMOUS for doing it over the centuries.

Again, your unfair characterizations of ALL Muslims based on the actions of a few are unwarranted--but they've become common here on FR, where CERTAIN KINDS of religious bigotry are apparently tolerated.

The violence of the Quaran can be denied till doomsday, the evidence is very much to the contrary. There have been many posters on FR that have posted the verses(?) from the Quaran saying it's ok to lie and decieve infidels, it's ok to kill those that refuse to embrace their religion.

And I've posted references to I Samuel chapter 15, and Matthew 10:34, just two places among MANY in the Bible where violence against unbelievers is approved, but all I've gotten in response is name-calling, and a declaration that I'm "taking it out of context." (FWIW, why it's okay to risk taking scriptures from the Qu'ran out of context, but not the Bible, no one has bothered to explain to me).

41 posted on 11/29/2001 11:50:34 AM PST by Illbay
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