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To: spycatcher
Don't be stupid.

Christians who speak Arabic pray to "Allah". "Allah" means "God" in Arabic. Muslims are monotheists who are praying to the Creator of the Universe, whom they identify with the God of Abraham.

Now, they are mistaken about many of the attributes of God, but that doesn't mean they are praying to a non-entity. Are you saying that God doesn't hear their prayers?

If this is your logic, then, since either Jews or Christians are also seriously mistaken about the attributes of God, do you believe that God doesn't hear the prayers of whichever of those two groups doesn't understand Him correctly?

14 posted on 10/23/2001 9:30:38 AM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: VeritatisSplendor
Christians who speak Arabic pray to "Allah".

I've been wondering about this. The Eastern Christians I know speak either Greek or Ukrainian. I've seen wild claims on FR about Islam being a dressed up moon-god cult, but so far all I've seen for documentation is a Jack Chick tract and a web site which displays similar (ie: zero) credibility. Still looking...

AB

17 posted on 10/23/2001 9:35:44 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: VeritatisSplendor
Here's a fascinating read you might want to make regarding one of the 'prophets Mohammed cited as preceding him in the list which includes Jesus as merely a speaker/prophet, not the son of God ... Idris (from the egyptian pantheon of imaginary gods) the Prophet of Islam?
19 posted on 10/23/2001 9:43:47 AM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: VeritatisSplendor; OWK
There's a reason Allah's messenger seems to have the same personality as bin Laden and other creeps. Compare to the personality of Jesus. They're clearly messengers of two different Gods. I'll let you read and figure out which God is the true king of kings, and worthy of our praise.

Is Islam a Religion of Peace?

20 posted on 10/23/2001 9:45:13 AM PDT by spycatcher
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To: VeritatisSplendor
Don't be stupid.

Christians who speak Arabic pray to "Allah". "Allah" means "God" in Arabic. Muslims are monotheists who are praying to the Creator of the Universe, whom they identify with the God of Abraham.

The easy way to tell if they are praying to the same God -- is simply by asking whether they are praying to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Both Christians and Jews pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Where the Islamics differ is by praying to a god to whom Abraham did not pray -- i.e., the god of Mohammed (who the Islamics name Allah).

 

Now, they are mistaken about many of the attributes of God, but that doesn't mean they are praying to a non-entity. Are you saying that God doesn't hear their prayers?

You referred up above to Christians, but here I presume you're speaking of Islamics. If so, then no..., they're not praying to a "non-entity" -- but rather to the "god of this world" -- who is better known as Satan. That's because their "god" of Allah -- has all the characteristics of Satan. He oppresses, kills, lies, deceives and seeks to kill all Jews. These are the things that Satan does. So -- no -- it's not a "non-entity". They should be made aware of the fact that they are praying to the "god of this world" -- aka Satan.

 

If this is your logic, then, since either Jews or Christians are also seriously mistaken about the attributes of God, do you believe that God doesn't hear the prayers of whichever of those two groups doesn't understand Him correctly?

God, Himself makes it abundantly clear what the situation is between the Jews and the Christians. We can see that from the following --

Romans 10

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them." 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?' " (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, " 'Who will descend into the abyss?' " (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."

12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!"

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: "Their sound has gone out to all the earth, And their words to the ends of the world."

19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says: "I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation, I will move you to anger by a foolish nation." 20 But Isaiah is very bold and says: "I was found by those who did not seek Me; I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me." 21 But to Israel he says: "All day long I have stretched out My hands To a disobedient and contrary people."

Romans 11

1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 "Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life"? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? "I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal."

5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written: "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day." 9 And David says: "Let their table become a snare and a trap, A stumbling block and a recompense to them. 10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see, And bow down their back always."

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."

20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins." 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! 34 "For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counselor?" 35 "Or who has first given to Him And it shall be repaid to him?" 36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.

 

121 posted on 10/23/2001 1:55:30 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: VeritatisSplendor
Now, they are mistaken about many of the attributes of God, but that doesn't mean they are praying to a non-entity. Are you saying that God doesn't hear their prayers?

I'm quite sure he HEARS them...I just hope he doesn't ANSWER them, all things considered.

185 posted on 10/23/2001 5:20:19 PM PDT by moonhawk
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To: VeritatisSplendor; OWK
As a Trinitarian, I'm saying that Jesus is God.

If they don't worship Jesus, they aren't worshipping the true and only God.

"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; NO ONE comes to the Father, EXCEPT BY ME." Jesus, ca. 32 AD

364 posted on 11/08/2003 12:22:35 PM PST by xzins (Proud to be Army!)
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To: VeritatisSplendor
Christians who speak Arabic pray to "Allah".

They do now, but this appears to be due only to the cultural domination of Islam (examples of biblical texts using the word "Allah" cannot be found before around 900AD). Before Mohammed, "Allah" was the name of one of the deities of the Kaaba (a member of a pantheon of 360 gods), not another name for the Jewish God.

"Allah" means "God" in Arabic.

No it doesn't. "God" would be "Ilah", not "Allah", in arabic. "Allah" is a proper name of a specific deity, not a generic noun.

The article starting this thread suggests that "Allah" is from the compound Arabic word "al-ilah" or in english "the god". While this is popularly held to be true, in reality such an origin seems doubtful, since the part of the word signifying deity, "IL", is missing from the compound word. If this were the origin, then "Allah" would mean "the the", not "the god", which doesn't make sense. The Muslims believe that "Allah" is the proper name for their god, not a generic name for the Deity.

366 posted on 11/08/2003 1:37:58 PM PST by Technogeeb
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To: VeritatisSplendor
Does the existence of multiple counterfeits prove the non-existence of the real True one?
No, the other way around. The more counterfiets there are, there must be One True God.
415 posted on 11/11/2003 6:17:33 AM PST by Zeein ((the wise men still seek Him))
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To: VeritatisSplendor; OWK; BibChr; spycatcher
I agree that the talk about the semantics of the history of the word Allah is kind of silly. OF COURSE Moslems, in a real sense, worship another god. (by the way, the old Anglo-Saxon word "god" does indeed go back to pagan times with a pagan definition. Christians poured a new definition into it...so what? )

Are they thinking though of the Creator God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Sure they are. However its a biblical principle, that worship of God in a way and manner He doesn't specify equals worship of a false god--semantics are NOT the issue.

Christian Arabs will refer to God as Allah too, I believe....just a different sort of Allah than Mohammed described.

Jesus' treatement of the Pharissees is a perfect example. When they claimed they were "children of Moses" He said they were really "children of the devil." Why? Because they refused to listen to and follow Him--the incarnation of God the Son on earth. Did the Pharisees have in mind Moses' God? Of course....did they read the actual holy scriptures (not the imitation of the Koran)--why yes--much more than most Christians ever have--however, since in their heart, they were still rebels to God, actually thinking they could earn His favor--or that they had it, just because they were Jewish, rather than being honest in relying on His mercy--they were NOT worshiping the true God, even though by any outward measure--they sure looked like they did.

The same is true of Islam. I suspect that the devil saw how sucessful the FALSE WORSHIP OF THE TRUE GOD was in the Pharisees, in terms of blinding them to God's Messiah, Jesus, that it wanted to create a gentile version of this heart-hardening legalistic religion--thus keeping them blind to the good news of Jesus. Hence: Mohammed's Islam.

A moral, legalistic system--with a distant, tyrannical god--which keeps (and worsens) people in their sin...with its inevitable "fruit" namely, death.

(by the way, I think much of the trouble of Israel & the Arabs is ulitmately found in the butting of heads of two legalistic, heart hardening religions--both of which have no real concept of the mercy of God....)
535 posted on 12/10/2003 10:10:33 AM PST by AnalogReigns
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