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Who is covered by the Bill of Rights
Self | October 18, 2001 | Self

Posted on 10/18/2001 10:05:22 AM PDT by RebelDawg

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To: thtr
The fact is obvious. The Bill of Rights begins with “We the people of the United States”. The “people of the United States” are those who reside here. Where is the confusion?
So are you saying that a citizen of China here on a work visa is a member of "the people of the United States"?

hmmmmm, interesting but I disagree.

If I go to China on a weekend vacation then am I a member of the "people of China" for that weekend? Seems like a strange idea to me...
41 posted on 10/18/2001 10:45:57 AM PDT by RebelDawg
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To: freedomcrusader
The rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights are not granted by God. There is no mention of it being so in the document. The Declaration of Independence states that “Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” are granted by God. All other “rights” are granted by the people (or taken away by the people) through their representative government. That is WHY there is a written constitution. God did not grant that “Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation”.
42 posted on 10/18/2001 10:45:59 AM PDT by thtr
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To: BikerNYC
Correct, the 14th Ammendment applies the rights in the Bill of Rights to "all people within its jurisdiction". It does not say "citizens". It does not say "resident".
43 posted on 10/18/2001 10:48:36 AM PDT by PFC
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To: RebelDawg; Uriel1975
I see the bill of Rights as belonging to the citizens PERIOD!

Protect our borders...remove the illigals

44 posted on 10/18/2001 10:48:49 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: dhuffman@awod.com; RebelDawg; artios
dhuffman said it well:

"The BoR only enumerates Rights granted by GOD to all of mankind."

artios went into a bit more detail:

"It conferes no rights to any person or group, but states that the governments purpose to to protect or God given rights."

Bottom line:
My rights are not given to me by the government of the place where I live.
They are inherently mine from the day that I was born.
Someone may attempt to take them away from me (as happens in most countries),
but here, a person's G*d-given rights are (supposed) to be recognized -not granted- by our government.
Those G*d-given rights are the same for everyone.
If a person is in this country -no matter what his nationality- our government should recongnize those rights.
(The reason that religion is under attack should be obvious when the concept of individual rights is considered.)
The documents that define our government are supposed to be for limiting government, not granting individual rights.
Our founding fathers were not that arrogant.
45 posted on 10/18/2001 10:48:54 AM PDT by freefly
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To: thtr
The rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights are not granted by God. [...] All other “rights” are granted by the people (or taken away by the people) through their representative government.

Can you point to any Amendments in the Bill of Rights which explicitly "grant" rights to the people? Thanks.

46 posted on 10/18/2001 10:49:26 AM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: RebelDawg
If a person from China is granted Visa to reside in the United States for any period of time, then yes, that person must follow all of the laws of the United States and is afforded all of the rights. That is implicit in granting the Visa. China does not have a constitution that affords those rights to people to whom it grants visas.
47 posted on 10/18/2001 10:49:37 AM PDT by thtr
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To: Dr. Frank
Wow! Nice post. Very informative.

Thank you for the excellent post! ;-)
48 posted on 10/18/2001 10:49:39 AM PDT by RebelDawg
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To: thtr
Oh brother. What is it about the words 'that among these' that don't you understand? Jefferson stated right there in the Declaration that his list was not complete!!!!

The philosophy of the founders was clearly natural rights, they clearly believed that rights were bestowed by the Creator, and they clearly intended that the Bill of Rights protect God-given rights. Just because the document doesn't say doesn't mean it isn't so.

49 posted on 10/18/2001 10:50:40 AM PDT by freedomcrusader
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To: thtr
The Declaration of Independence states that “Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” are granted by God. All other “rights” are granted by the people (or taken away by the people) through their representative government.

!!!!????

So our representative government could abolish religious freedom, RKBA, freedom of speeech, etc?

I don't think you really mean this. Read the BOR. The BOR does not say the rights are "granted", but that they shall "not be infringed."

I wish I HAD stayed at the Holiday Inn Express.

Harry K.

50 posted on 10/18/2001 10:51:16 AM PDT by HarryKnutszacke
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To: Dr. Frank
Article IV : Section 2. The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States

One of many.

51 posted on 10/18/2001 10:51:52 AM PDT by thtr
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To: RebelDawg
The answer to your question lies in the 14th amendent.

"Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

This section has been the subject of much debate. In the first sentence and the first clause of the second sentence, it's clear that the law applies to citizens.

It is the second and third clauses of the second sentence that are unclear. Does the semicolon mean that the clauses are to infer citizens from the first clause?

Or, does the law apply to anyone within US juristdiction regardless of how they got there?

The courts have ruled both ways. In the most cases anyone in this country is afforded equal protection.

52 posted on 10/18/2001 10:51:52 AM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: Dr. Frank; thtr
P.S. (...with the exception of the "speedy trial" type rights that appear to be granted by Amendment 6, of course, as I already mentioned in my previous post.)
53 posted on 10/18/2001 10:51:54 AM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: freedomcrusader
I would also go so far to say that if "the people" or "the government" bestow rights, then those groups are able to take them away as well. That could potentially be a major blow to us Second Amendment advocates, to say the least....
54 posted on 10/18/2001 10:52:02 AM PDT by MWS
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To: thtr
The rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights are not granted by God. There is no mention of it being so in the document.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, ...

The Declaration of Independence states the principles upon which the Constitution is legally constructed. The Bill of Rights was written by its proponents to explicitly state that the gov't could not infringe on these natural rights, rights granted by nobody but God.

55 posted on 10/18/2001 10:52:15 AM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: RebelDawg
Like I have said, look at the 14th Amendment:

No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Clearly, everyone, all persons, everyone, not just citizens, within the jurisdiction of the United States has the right to due process of law and the equal protection of the law, no? If the founders wanted to limit it to "citizens" they should have said so like they did in the first portion of the 14th Amendment.
56 posted on 10/18/2001 10:52:45 AM PDT by BikerNYC
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To: BikerNYC
There is a distinction made between "citizens" and "persons." I don't think we should be reading "citizens" unless the word "citizens" is actually used.
Ah good point Biker! You may convince me yet ;-)
57 posted on 10/18/2001 10:53:03 AM PDT by RebelDawg
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To: thtr
Unless I am mistaken, Article IV Section 2 of the Constitution is not a part of the Bill of Rights.

Best,

58 posted on 10/18/2001 10:54:02 AM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: MWS
I would also go so far to say that if "the people" or "the government" bestow rights, then those groups are able to take them away as well.

That's right. And that's why any society where such a philosophy is the prevailing one is doomed to tyranny.

59 posted on 10/18/2001 10:54:27 AM PDT by freedomcrusader
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To: ctdonath2
The Declaration of Independence is NOT THE SAME as the Constitution. That's WHY they had to write it!
60 posted on 10/18/2001 10:55:10 AM PDT by thtr
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