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To: Frumanchu
Thanks Fuman for the photos.

The weapons depicted are offensive. We hear all kinds of stories and tales about Stinger missles left over from the Afgan war with the Soviets.

Could you please give a sentence or two on defensive capabilities? Why is low and slow not vulnerable to a raghead with a Stinger? I worry.

14 posted on 10/18/2001 10:45:00 AM PDT by bert
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To: bert
Could you please give a sentence or two on defensive capabilities? Why is low and slow not vulnerable to a raghead with a Stinger? I worry.

AC-130s have extensive self-defense capabilities, including several jamming pods and transmitters, and lots of chaff to defeat radar-homing missiles. They also have lots of flairs, as well as I/R jammers, to defeat I/R homers.

And I wouldn't worry too much about Stingers. Each Stinger shot is made possible by a battery that looks something like an instant coffee can. Problem is that a battery can only be used for one shot, then discarded. And they have a pretty short shelf life ... substantially less than the 10-15 years since we gave the last Stingers to the Mujahadeen. I mean, let a Duracell sit on your shelf for 10 years and then try to use it ...
19 posted on 10/18/2001 10:59:52 AM PDT by gkidman
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To: bert
We lost one in Desert Storm because he stayed on station past sunrise giving the Iraqi gunners a clear target. They are deadly but they are very vulnerable.
22 posted on 10/18/2001 11:04:45 AM PDT by Arkie2
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To: bert
Could you please give a sentence or two on defensive capabilities? Why is low and slow not vulnerable to a raghead with a Stinger? I worry.

Four problems with the concept of bringing a Spectre down with a Stinger occur to me.

First, instead of having one or two closely-spaced turbojet engines, like a fighter would have, the Spectre has four widely-spaced turboprop engines. This means that the image of the exhaust in infrared is not sharp and bright, but rather dim and smeared-out. It's likely that a Stinger's seeker head would have trouble locking on to such a picture: the missileer would probably be forced to stay exposed to give the missile a long, long look at the target. See Problem Four below.

Secondly, the small, low-tech seeker head on a Stinger missile would be completely overwhelmed by the three IR decoy-flare ejectors on an AC-130 (same with the Marines' MC-130). When somebody mashes his thumb down on the flare button, those three huge ejectors start launching (a guess, based on a video clip I saw) between ten and twenty big magnesium flares per second: to the right, to the left, and straight down. (You can see a couple of still examples in Stand Watch Listen's photographs.) Each of those hundreds of flares would be a much juicier target to the Stinger's seeker head than the big, cool, washed-out signature of the Spectre's engines.

Third, the Spectre carries quite a bit of Kevlar armor, as well as a little of the steel kind. Man-portable missiles have to be lightweight, and the Stinger's warhead is only about two pounds, if I remember correctly. If the missile locked on, made it through the defenses, and struck, the crew would notice, but catastrophic failure would be unlikely. Remember, the Spectre has four engines.

And fourth, the Spectre travels with escort aircraft that spend their time doing nothing but wheeling around it using night-vision equipment to look for missileers trying to get a lock.

A possible fifth is that it's likely the enemy already knows about Problems 1 through 4, and is therefore unlikely to waste missiles and missileers attacking Spectres. There are only so many Stingers in Afghanistan, and when they run out of stock and reorder, there's likely to be something of a restocking delay. If I were them, I'd save the missiles for a more realistic target: for example, a slow-moving AH-1 Cobra gunship or a UH-60 Blackhawk troop transport with a nice tight turboshaft exhaust signature. 300mph may be slow for a fixed-wing military aircraft, but it's nothing but a pipe dream for most helicopters--and besides, helicopters are what Afghan missileers are trained to engage.

29 posted on 10/18/2001 2:52:14 PM PDT by Barak
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