[SoothingDave]

Again, I prefer your offer of 'spiritual leadership' (even though I respectfully decline it) over Boniface's attempted usurpation of secular authority. The modern Catholic Church is right on this, and Boniface was in error.

I am prepared to go this far at the moment. The Church in history often intertwined temporal and spiritual authority in ways which would have been better left undone. It must be understood that the Church filled a vacuum and became in places a gov't by default. It is also true that the church in places had to defend her internal affairs from meddling princes. But I will admit a stubbornness and clinging to temporal power, including the issuance of spiritual threats over temporal matters. This is a mistake and some of the Bull in question displays this attitude. The Church is not infallible in temporal affairs.

SD

[malakhi]

I am prepared to go this far at the moment. The Church in history often intertwined temporal and spiritual authority in ways which would have been better left undone. It must be understood that the Church filled a vacuum and became in places a gov't by default. It is also true that the church in places had to defend her internal affairs from meddling princes. But I will admit a stubbornness and clinging to temporal power, including the issuance of spiritual threats over temporal matters. This is a mistake and some of the Bull in question displays this attitude. The Church is not infallible in temporal affairs.

On the matter of spiritual vs. temporal authority, fair enough.