Replies

Why is this so important to you guys?? This boggles my mind.

Excellent question. If the Catholic Church teaches error, as many on these threads believe, then there must be a parallel group of Christians that have existed since the time of the Apostles that have taught and preserved true doctrine. In order for them to do that, they must have left a written record of this otherwise, how could Christianity survive for 2000 years? Now our Orthodox friends will immediately point out that the truth has been preserved in their Church. However, you guys don’t believe them either so who has preserved the truth?

Many of you say we don’t need proof, we have the Bible. To which I reply what about all those Christians that lived and died before the Canon of NT was closed around 400 AD? And even more importantly, it was the Catholic Church that decided and closed the canon. Did the Catholic Church get this right and was wrong about everything else? Where were you guys when all this was going on? Did you have representatives at the Council of Carthage in 397AD?

Another point is when Martin Luther declared everything we need for salvation is found in the bible and we can all interpret it with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, this was a novel idea. He did away with Holy Tradition, (except for the Sunday Sabbath which he admitted was given to us by the authority of the Church) and the teaching authority of the Church. Nobody had ever heard of this before. If we are to believe some posters, this should not have been a big deal. They claim Christians have been doing this since the time of the Apostles. If this is true, where’s the proof? That’s the point, there is none.

The fact that many don’t see this as a problem boggles my mind.

"However, you guys don’t believe them either so who has preserved the truth?"

The Holy Spirit.

All great movements in the Christian faith start off living. The reformation with Luther was a great work of the Holy Spirit. But man seems to take these movements and turn them into tradition or organizations. So the truth that Luther uncovered reformed the church and brought many to Christ but man eventually turned what Luther did into the Lutheran denomination. With Calvin, men created the Presbyterian denomination. And the list goes on. These man made denominations get all the press, but God does keep a remnant, just like he did in Elijah's time. The Catholic church is not the true church because it separates the body of Christ, the TRUE church. We are all members of this church, but you would rather hold on to the traditions of man, rather than the word of God.

JM

Another point is when Martin Luther declared everything we need for salvation is found in the bible and we can all interpret it with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, this was a novel idea.

Novel idea indeed!

ST. JOHN CHRYSOSTOM OF ANTIOCH AND BYZANTIUM* (347-407) [The Scripture], like a safe door, denies an entrance to heretics, guarding us in safety in all things we desire, and not permitting us to be deceived. ...Whoever uses not the Scriptures, but comes in otherwise, that is, cuts out for himself a different and unlawful way, the same is a thief. (Homily 59, in Joh. 2:8)

Formerly it might have been ascertained by various means which was the true church, but at present there is no other method left for those who are willing to discover the true church of Christ but by the Scriptures alone. And why? Because heresy has all outward observances in common with her. If a man, therefore, be desirous of knowing the true church, how will he be able to do it amid so great resemblance, but by the Scriptures alone? Wherefore our Lord, foreseeing that such a great confusion of things would take place in the latter days, ordered the Christians to have recourse to nothing but the Scriptures.

The man of God could not be perfect without the Scriptures. [Paul says to Timothy:] “You have the Scriptures: if you desire to learn anything, you may learn it from them.” But if he writes these things to Timothy, who was filled with the Holy Spirit, how much more must we think these things spoken to us. (Hom. 9 in 2 Tim. 1:9)

It is absurd, while we will not trust other people in pecuniary affairs, but choose to reckon and calculate for ourselves, that in matters of far higher consequence we should implicitly follow the opinions of others, especially as we possess the most exact and perfect rule and standard by which to regulate our several inquiries: I mean the regulation of the divine laws. I, therefore, could wish that all of you would reject what this or that man says, and that you would investigate all these things in the Scriptures. (Hom. 13, 4:10 ad fin. in 2 Cor.)