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Disarmed A gun-hating historian comes under heavy fire.
NRO | October 4, 2001 | John J. Miller & Ramesh Ponnuru

Posted on 10/04/2001 12:12:37 PM PDT by LavaDog

NR's Melissa Seckora had the misfortune of seeing an important piece debut on National Review Online on the morning of September 11. Her story exposing the phony sources behind Arming America: The Origins of a National Gun Culture, an award-winning book critical of U.S. gun culture by Emory University historian Michael Bellesiles, normally would have attracted a great deal of attention. Instead, it became a minor concern as we all came to grips with the horror of mass terrorism.

Now there's been a stunning new development in the Bellesiles case: The head of Emory's history department is demanding that Bellesiles write a detailed defense of his book. "What is important is that he defend himself and the integrity of his scholarship immediately," said James Melton, according to yesterday's Boston Globe, which also printed a September 11 story on Bellesiles airing charges similar to NR's. "Depending upon his response, the university will respond appropriately."

That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of a colleague. And it gets worse: "If there is prima facie evidence of scholarly misconduct, the university has to conduct a thorough investigation. Whether it be a purely internal inquiry, or the university brings in distinguished scholars in the field, will depend on how Michael responds," said Melton.

Seckora, in fact, interviewed some of the "distinguished scholars" any such effort is likely to involve — including a few recommended to her by Bellesiles. Let's just say he doesn't fare well in their estimation. But how could he? Key sources for his claim that guns were a much less important part of early American culture than is commonly believed simply don't exist. Many of those he cites, in fact, were destroyed in San Francisco's 1906 earthquake. There's not a historian alive who's seen them.

Bellesiles now must explain how they wound up in his footnotes — and he told the Globe he'll do it in a future newsletter published by the Organization of American Historians.

He has his work cut out for him, thanks in part to the intrepid reporting of Seckora, whose article may be read here, or in the October 15, 2001, issue of National Review.


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
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To: madison46
Larry Pratt interviews Author Clayton Cramer Deconstructing Latest Anti-Gun Mythmaker Michael Bellesiles
06-09-2001
Listen in RealAudio
Other great interviews
41 posted on 10/04/2001 3:41:18 PM PDT by patriot93
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To: Physicist
That is just too cool. My ancestors were more or less grubbing in dirt for edible roots at the time... be proud of your American heritage, doc.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

42 posted on 10/04/2001 3:50:30 PM PDT by Criminal Number 18F
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To: LavaDog
bttt
43 posted on 10/04/2001 3:53:16 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: monkeyshine
Taint no sloppy scholarship here, dear friend.

Complete stinking fraud exposed for the forgery it is.

Lock and load!

44 posted on 10/04/2001 4:07:04 PM PDT by TheGoodDoc
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To: George Smiley
I like it! First Clymer and now "bel·li·cism (n)". This is a keeper.
45 posted on 10/04/2001 4:08:08 PM PDT by PA Engineer
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To: LavaDog
'Scholarly misconduct'...
46 posted on 10/04/2001 4:12:30 PM PDT by real saxophonist
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To: LavaDog
In my estimation, the worse things on earth are violent criminals. Next on the list are liars.
47 posted on 10/04/2001 4:13:26 PM PDT by lds23
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To: Hobey Baker
This is great. And of course, all the gun grabbers who gleefully quoted this guy's bogus "findings" will recant immediately, right? (They'll have to duck to miss all the flying pigs that will appear at the same time.)

They'll still be quoting him ten years from noe.

48 posted on 10/04/2001 4:25:33 PM PDT by SJackson
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To: TheGoodDoc
Taint no sloppy scholarship here, dear friend.

Complete stinking fraud exposed for the forgery it is.

Lock and load!

Needed to be said again.

49 posted on 10/04/2001 4:28:45 PM PDT by Double Tap
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To: madison46
You seem to have some knowledge of Bellesiles work. I remember reading that when first challenged (his results couldn't be duplicated by anyone else from the same sources), he claimed his original source research was lost in a flood in his basement. Have you ever heard this, or do you know if it is true?
50 posted on 10/04/2001 4:29:16 PM PDT by SJackson
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To: Ditto
I think its high time that the American people wake up to the fact that government grant driven junk science and politically correct social theory are the cancerous norms that have infected universities.

Ten years ago, I was in a discussion group which included a professor. A topic came up, and I naively suggested to the prof that this might be a good research project.

His response was basicly "using what for funding?"

I then found out that, in academia today, no research gets done which is not funded from some outside source. This means that, you cannot start research until you have secured grant funding, and you are not going to get funding until you have convinced the grant providers that your research results are going to produce results that they will like.

51 posted on 10/04/2001 4:29:54 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor
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To: SauronOfMordor
Exactly correct. And the radical left took control of the large foundations many years ago. Those grant moneys have not been used for the advancement of knowledge as envisioned by their benefactors, but for propagandizing and as stipends for loyal supporters. The quest for truth and knowledge in academia ended long ago. It’s time for us to dispel the myth that it still exists.
52 posted on 10/04/2001 4:39:22 PM PDT by Ditto
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To: KC Burke
When you get it all marked up, I bet lots of people would love to see your copy.
53 posted on 10/04/2001 4:48:33 PM PDT by Deb
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Comment #54 Removed by Moderator

To: madison46
Will Rogers said,"History ain’t what it is; it’s what some writer wanted it to be."

This is what Emory University historian Michael Bellesiles had hoped for. Unfortunately, he choose to define the 2nd Amendmant which had been previously defined by the Founders of these United States. There is many papers written about their discussions as to why they decided that new America needed a 2nd Amendmant. These records do exist. Are you reading these Senators Boxer, Sienstein, Schumer, Kennedy, ..........?

55 posted on 10/04/2001 5:08:56 PM PDT by B4Ranch
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To: LavaDog
Vin Suprynowicz thrashed this guy fairly vigorously about a year ago.
56 posted on 10/04/2001 5:14:43 PM PDT by DuncanWaring
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To: LavaDog
Key sources for his claim that guns were a much less important part of early American culture than is commonly believed simply don't exist. Many of those he cites, in fact, were destroyed in San Francisco's 1906 earthquake. There's not a historian alive who's seen them. Bellesiles now must explain how they wound up in his footnotes...

Let me guess what happened to his original interview notes:

The dog ate it.
The maid threw it out.
It fell behind the refrigerator.
His kid sister used it in her paper-mache doll.

57 posted on 10/04/2001 5:19:55 PM PDT by Hillary 666
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To: LavaDog
See also the column by Marc Egnal in the National Post, entitled "Of muskets and terrorism", posted the other day.

My remarks on that column were:

The book was just plain silly on its face.

The Jonathans lived in a mainly agrarian society, surrounded by wilderness, with hostile French and aboriginals on their boundaries.

The demarcation line set by Crown proclamation in 1763 to define the Iroquios territories cut through the middle of what are now the states of New York and Pennsylvania.

The Jonathans needed their guns to augment their diet and to defend their homes.

As to probate: Why would anyone list such a common household item as a gun on a probate? Unless it was a lawyer in a town covering his own arse.

Simpler for the sons to simply take possession of the guns, or simply leave them hanging in the front room where they always were. Who wants to tell the government everything about your household effects?

Special pleading is intellectual dishonesty.


58 posted on 10/04/2001 5:34:09 PM PDT by Clive
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To: Physicist
The Oneida who had to be relocated to Schenectedy during the Revolution to get out of the way of British terrorists lost a lot of stuff. Years later they were asked to file claims with the United States government (the Oneida having been good American allies).

There were no claims for lost weapons, yet we know the Oneida had lots of weapons. They served as Scouts with the New York regiments, and they hunted for a living.

Just because they didn't claim they'd lost a gun or two didn't mean that they didn't have guns.

BTW, the State of New York betrayed these firm allies in later years by violating the federal law regarding sales of Indian property. Not only that, New York sold all that stolen land to illegal aliens.

59 posted on 10/04/2001 5:56:43 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Number_Cruncher
We have records to establish that one of my ancestors in 17th century Quebec was one of several apprentices to an armorer; we have the rifles still in the family that ancestors who served in two different NY Regiments in the Civil War owned. We have rifles and pistols in the family that belonged to all the ancestors we know about on my family's Yankee side and wife's family's Rebel side. Now what the sociological meaning of this could be, I won't speculate, but we have material evidence in both my family and my wife's going back well over two centuries of regular ownership of firearms. On my French Canadian side we have documentary, though no material, evidence, taking it back 350 years in a family which were just plain folks. To the present generation, we simply all have been shooters from our teenage years onward, and I can scarcely imagine it will end here, although there are a few of the younger ones who live in urban locations and don't shoot much because it is a more expensive and less accessible pastime than it is for the rest of us who live in or nearer the country.
60 posted on 10/04/2001 6:21:01 PM PDT by mathurine
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