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How many preaching pacifism would accept life as a conquered people?
Union Leader ^ | Oct 04, 2001 | Michael Kelly

Posted on 10/04/2001 2:03:10 AM PDT by 2Trievers

LAST WEEK, I argued that those Americans who preached pacifism in response to the attacks of Sept. 11 were (borrowing from George Orwell) objectively pro-terrorist, objectively in favor of letting the masters of this attack escape to live and to commit more mass murders of Americans.

This upset some people. One Pennsylvania man issued what in pacifist circles must constitute a violent threat: “You may expect a series of letters from me and other folks in this regard, until such time as you deem it appropriate to issue a complete retraction of, and unqualified apology for, your comments.” Please, not the dread Series of Letters.

Let me see if I may cause further upset. Two propositions: The first is that much of what is passing for pacifism in this instance is not pacifism at all but only the latest tedious manifestation of a well-known pre-existing condition — the largely reactionary, largely incoherent, largely silly muddle of anti-American, anti-corporatist, anti-globalist sentiments that passes for the politics of the left these days. The second is that, again in this instance, the anti-war sentiment (to employ a term that encompasses both genuine pacifism and an opposition to war rooted in America-hatred) is intellectually dishonest, elitist and hypocritical.

That the anti-war sentiment is in general only a manifestation of the larger anomie of the reactionary left is clear. The first large anti-war demonstration was held last weekend in Washington and the most obvious fact about it was that this protest against war was planned before there was ever any thought of war. It had been intended as just another in the series of protests against globalism that have been serving as a sort of kvetch basin for all sorts of unhappy people who like to yell about the awfulness of “Amerika” or international corporations or rich people or people who drive large cars or drug companies that test their products on bunny rabbits or life its own unfair self.

When the terrorists murdered more than 6,000 people and the President said that America was going to do something commensurate about this, the organizers of the Washington protest realized they had found a fresh complaint and a fresh cause. They thought up a few new instantly tired slogans (“Resist Racist War”) and printed up a few new posters and —presto-changeo — thus was born an anti-war movement. Or something.

As to the second proposition. Osama bin Laden has told us by word and action that he sees himself and his cohort as engaged in a total war against the United States and that this war is one not just of nations but of cultures: Holy Islam versus a corrupt imperialist America. He has promised further attacks such as Sept. 11 unless the United States sues for peace under impossible terms, the abandonment of Israel being only one. In short, Osama bin Laden wishes to defeat the United States. So do others; for instance, Saddam Hussein.

Do the pacifists wish to live in a United States that has been defeated by Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein? Do they wish to live in a United States that has been defeated by any foreign force? Do they wish to live under an occupying power? Do they wish to live under, say, the laws of the Taliban or the Baath Party of Iraq?

These questions, you may say, rest on an absurd premise: Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein cannot ever hope to defeat and occupy the United States. Yes, but that is true only because the United States maintains and employs an armed force sufficient to defeat those who would defeat it. If the United States did as the pacifists wish — if it eschewed war even when attacked — it would, at some point, be conquered by a foreign regime. What stops this from happening is that the government and generally the people of the United States do not heed the wishes of the pacifists.

The anti-warriors must know that their position is a luxury made affordable only by the sure bet that no one in authority will ever accede to their position. The marchers and shouters and flag-burners in Washington pretended to the argument that war should not be waged. What they really mean is that war should not be waged by them. It should be waged by other mothers’ sons and daughters.

How many pacifists would be willing to accept the logical outcome of their creed of nonviolence even in face of attack — life as a conquered people? Not many, I would think. How many want the (mostly lower-class) men and women of the United States armed forces to continue to fight so that they may enjoy the luxury of preaching against fighting? Nearly all, I would think.

Liars. Frauds. Hypocrites. Strong letters, no doubt, to follow.

Michael Kelley is the editor of Atlantic Monthly magazine and a graduate of the University of New Hampshire.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
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"Let's Roll!"
1 posted on 10/04/2001 2:03:11 AM PDT by 2Trievers
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To: 2Trievers
Good catch! I hope Mr. Kelly survives the dreaded series of letters heaped on him by weak kneed future slaves.
2 posted on 10/04/2001 2:11:27 AM PDT by Movemout
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To: 2Trievers
Great article ! He is so right .
3 posted on 10/04/2001 2:21:07 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: 2Trievers
"How many preaching pacifism would accept life as a conquered people? "

A look at the last presidential election map of the United States will give a good idea.

4 posted on 10/04/2001 2:24:38 AM PDT by G.Mason
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To: 2Trievers
He poses a great question, except they would not even have the opportunity to live as "conquered people.

The pacifists have a lack of grip on the basics this time - We Get Him or He Gets Us, and he's not taking prisioners - he takes their heads off.

5 posted on 10/04/2001 2:28:42 AM PDT by bond7
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To: 2Trievers
How many preaching pacifism would accept life as a conquered people?

Many would. These jack assess are also the gun grabbers. They are morally weak! They would be lining up at the mosques to convert......

...... no sword (of Islam) needed.

6 posted on 10/04/2001 2:29:48 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: dennisw
Many would. These jack assess are also the gun grabbers. They are morally weak! They would be lining up at the mosques to convert......

Sounds like perfect sheeple to me.

Yes, and all of those "infidels" out there protesting, too, (you know, the same commie/gay/lesbian/pro-abortion/PETA/feminists that show up at all those deals) would soon be shot, stoned to death or beheaded.
I suppose they don't think about that.

7 posted on 10/04/2001 2:45:15 AM PDT by babyfreep
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To: scan59, rocknotsand
bump to hubby and thanks for the link, rock
8 posted on 10/04/2001 2:50:04 AM PDT by babyfreep
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To: 2Trievers
How many preaching pacifism would accept life as a conquered people?

They already have.

9 posted on 10/04/2001 2:58:48 AM PDT by He Rides A White Horse
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: G.Mason
Yikes! I better start looking for out-of-state real estate, GM.
11 posted on 10/04/2001 3:05:13 AM PDT by 2Trievers
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To: 2Trievers
Phil Donahugh (SP?)

What a P***.Bill O "cleaned his Clock" on GMA!

What would Phil do if his wife was having HER throat slit?

CS
12 posted on 10/04/2001 3:09:53 AM PDT by CaptSkip
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To: Dear Tabby
we can't even speak freely on "Free" Republic, a private forum!

Liberal disruptors are always easy to spot. They think they have a right to post whatever they want to on somebody else's privately owned property.

Yes, by "jackass" I do mean you reading this. In what sense are you free, moron?

The biggest moron reading this is obviously you.

13 posted on 10/04/2001 3:25:37 AM PDT by He Rides A White Horse
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To: Dear Tabby
So why don't you go strolling back over to the sinking ship known as "Salon"?
14 posted on 10/04/2001 3:31:43 AM PDT by He Rides A White Horse
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To: Dear Tabby
You come over here to insult people about being unfree, then spout some Marxist drivel about how unhappy you are because you can't appropriate Free Republic for your own ends. Knowing full well that it is a private forum as you mentioned.

Then again, the concept of private property never sat well with commies like yourself, did it? Neither does true freedom, either. Now get lost before I get nasty, whining loser.

15 posted on 10/04/2001 3:36:25 AM PDT by He Rides A White Horse
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To: G.Mason, 2Trievers
"How many preaching pacifism would accept life as a conquered people? "

"A look at the last presidential election map of the United States will give a good idea."

All anyone needs is an overseer like serpent head cargille to crack the whip. They will vote clinton/condit all day long or get on their knees and give bjs to anyone. They are contolled by fear and about as conquered as anyone could be.

16 posted on 10/04/2001 3:40:24 AM PDT by Inge_CAV
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To: Dear Tabby
“You may expect a series of letters for that post.

Only because it's an anonymous forum...

17 posted on 10/04/2001 3:49:59 AM PDT by packrat01
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To: Dear Tabby
"Let's roll...over laughing. We already are a conquered people. We pay half our income in taxes -- we can't even speak freely on "Free" Republic, a private forum! What a joke. Anybody here vote for affirmative action? For "hate" crimes? For open borders? For $100 billion to Israel? Yeah, we're free all right. Free to agree with the going Big Lie, and that's about it. Be careful morons, "loose lips sink ships." I can just picture Osama out there now, wiping his ass with his left hand, tapping his palm pilot with his right so he can get the latest military secrets from Free Republic jackasses. Yes, by "jackass" I do mean you reading this. In what sense are you free, moron? You aren't -- you don't have any idea what freedom is."

Had you left the struck parts out....I would agree .

18 posted on 10/04/2001 3:52:36 AM PDT by G.Mason
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To: Dear Tabby
In what sense are you free, moron? You aren't -- you don't have any idea what freedom is.

I'll just bet that you know what true freedom is. It's that uphoric sense of well being you get when you take that first toke of the day, right.

19 posted on 10/04/2001 3:56:34 AM PDT by Gramps
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To: 2Trievers
bump for later reading.
20 posted on 10/04/2001 4:00:18 AM PDT by snippy_about_it
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