Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: betty boop
Thanks for the thoughtful post. I generally agree with her, although I don't consider Satan merely a myth, but an actual being. My issue is with Platonism, specifically, his understand of the soul as she articulates here:

Plato consciously developed the language of the myth because he needed to find a legitimate language to articulate movements of the soul -- soul being understood as the vast complex of (1) unique, infinite spiritual essence; (2) the unconscious, conscious, and self-conscious domains of the Self; and (3) the nous (intellect or reason). To Plato, this organic complex uniquely describes the essential being of every sacred human person. (Like snowflakes, no two souls are exactly alike.) Moreover, to my knowledge, there is nothing in Christian theology that refutes this view.

This "immortal soul" opinion has led Christianity astray for nearly 2000 years. The early Christian philosophers, seeking validity from the pagan world, and attracted to his logic, bought into this view, without verifying it against scripture. Jesus Himself refutes this by saying, "Fear Him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell fire."

This view is "annihilationism" and it is upheld by scripture. Ed Fudge has written a book called, "The Fire That Consumes" which examines the issue of eternal torment versus eternal punishment in detail, and comes to the annihilationist view point.

For those who disagree, remember, this point is not an essential point of doctrine.

4 posted on 10/01/2001 9:39:00 AM PDT by Forgiven_Sinner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


To: Forgiven_Sinner
This "immortal soul" opinion has led Christianity astray for nearly 2000 years. The early Christian philosophers, seeking validity from the pagan world, and attracted to his logic, bought into this view, without verifying it against scripture. Jesus Himself refutes this by saying, "Fear Him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell fire."

Forgiven_Sinner, I am hardly qualified to mediate a dispute concerning the differing scriptural understandings of the various confessions that make up Christianity. But I'll hazard to make a few observations. First, the destruction of the soul is what we understand as "the second death" -- the truly fatal death, for it is the removal of the soul from the Light, Love, and Consciousness of God for all eternity. This, I think, is the meaning of all-consuming hellfire that lasts forever. The person who thereby suffers "forever" must be immortal to do it. The word "perdition" takes its root from the Latin word meaning "to lose." Logically, one can "lose something" yet still "be around" in some fashion after one loses it -- to suffer for all eternity for what one has lost, as the case may be.

Second, I think it's useful to consider the historical context in which the early Church came into being. I have heard the theory that the later Schoolmen of the Church "introduced" Plato and Aristotle into Christian theology -- "inauthentic" influences that were not present in the beginning of "authentic" Christian doctrine.

Yet consider this: The Mediterranean world had been thoroughly hellenized by the time of the Coming of Our Lord. That is, Athens bequeathed to the world an intellectual and spiritual culture that dominated the Mediterranean basin; Rome helped to carry it to the ends of the then-known world. There were Greeks among the Twelve Disciples -- John and James come to mind. And Paul was a hellenized Jew. I know that Reformed Christianity tends to deemphasize the classical component of Christian theology; but the fact of the matter is the inspired men who wrote the Gospels and the Epistles at the behest of the Lord were Greek by culture: They thought and spoke like Greeks to at least some degree. Though not made fully explicit in the New Testament, the Greek intellectual inheritance -- modes of thought and reasoning -- can be seen by a sensitive reader in the Gospel of St. John in particular. These modes developed the insights of the Israelitic sources in light of the New Dispensation brought to man by Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Or at least, that is my understanding of such matters, FWIW. I'm glad for your reply, Forgiven_Sinner; and thank you so kindly for writing. best, bb.

14 posted on 10/01/2001 11:06:48 AM PDT by betty boop
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies ]

To: Forgiven_Sinner
"Fear Him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell fire."

Everything that God created is good, even the bodies and souls of those who damn themselves by choosing against Him. It seems that God would not annihilate something that is good in its essence: body and soul. Rather, since God is Justice, he will allow those who choose against Him to damn themselves, sentencing themselves to eternal punishment.

19 posted on 10/01/2001 12:34:18 PM PDT by Aquinasfan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies ]

To: Forgiven_Sinner
For all that you write about the soul, I find this point interesting from the essay: "Another language is needed to describe “intangible” entities, such as Evil – and also Soul and God for that matter -- which do not find their source in physical nature per se."

As to the other points you raise, it might help to make this distinction: the immortality argument can be distinguished from the eternal life argument and that the first demonstrates that the soul is related to something that is not physical in nature per se, and that the belief of the second can be legitimately retrieved from Jewish sources.

35 posted on 10/01/2001 8:20:40 PM PDT by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies ]

To: Forgiven_Sinner
But with regard to the proposed meditation in general, it appears that our consideration of evil is being buried by the arguments that are presumably meant to evince some understanding about that. Correct me if I am wrong.
36 posted on 10/01/2001 8:23:49 PM PDT by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson