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To: OWK
I asked if the poster believed that the hand of God takes an active role in influencing the earthly affairs of men. It would seem to me that if such was the case, then the concept of free will would be negated.

Your position seems to be that the existence of a historically-active God turns one into a robot. However, the ideas of an active God, and human free will, are not mutually exclusive, as you insist on making them out to be.

What you've apparently done is constructed an "either-or" strawman, whereas in reality it's not difficult to conceive of a situation where the two can co-exist quite comfortably.

As an example, consider how you take an active role in the earthly affairs of your children: it does not negate the fact that they have free will.

But again, let's cut to the chase here. Your motivation in asking the question seems to be based less on logic, than on an unwillingness to consider the possibility that human free will might not be the end-all and be-all of existence.

I can't help but notice the similarity between that position, and bb's line: I cannot bear the thought that there is anything greater than I am.

16 posted on 10/01/2001 12:08:18 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
However, the ideas of an active God, and human free will, are not mutually exclusive, as you insist on making them out to be.

Certainly seems that way to me.

Either one has free will, or he does not. One may not have a "free will subject to over-ride by an outside entity".

If God moves (even occasionally) to stay (or encourage) the hand of his creation, then they do not have free will. Even his choice to leave his creation to act in accordance with it's own will, becomes subject to his judgement (rendering free will illusory).

17 posted on 10/01/2001 12:15:34 PM PDT by OWK
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To: r9etb
But again, let's cut to the chase here. Your motivation in asking the question seems to be based less on logic, than on an unwillingness to consider the possibility that human free will might not be the end-all and be-all of existence.

No... my question was motivated by my inability to rationally reconcile the notion of an activist God, with the notion of free will.

All the periperal discussion is of your creation, not mine.

18 posted on 10/01/2001 12:17:39 PM PDT by OWK
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