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Moonshine Suspects To Face Trial
Associated Press ^ | September 8 ,2001 | Chris Kahn

Posted on 09/08/2001 9:35:10 PM PDT by Church Lady

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To: the irate magistrate, ratcat
I'd sure like to see that map. I did a search on "biosphere" but came up empty-handed. Will you please bump me to this thread when it gets posted. Or maybe the URL for the other thread? Thanks.
21 posted on 09/09/2001 3:22:27 AM PDT by JudyB1938
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To: Church Lady
We're not the only country with a fine moonshining tradition. A friend of mine introduced me to Polish Slivovitz, a vodka made from fermented plums. It really goes down smooooooooooooooooooth.

The Story of Lacko Slivovitz, Poland's #1 Moonshine

It all started with a certain parish priest who thought up an unusual form of penance for his flock: they had to plant an apple tree or plum tree for every sin committed. Soon the priest realized his error and rescinded the order, but it was too late. The tilled fields had disappeared; instead, all around the village of Lacko (pronounced wants-ko) the ground was thick with fruit trees. Then the devil stepped in and proposed a fine way for the people to use the plums -- all of which may not be entirely true, but some unearthly powers must have been involved in the creation of Lacko slivovitz, since to this day it is known all over Poland as the drink with the heavenly taste and devilish kick.

The secrets of making it are passed from father to son. The plums have to ferment naturally for four or five weeks, without sugar or yeast. The ready liquor should be about 70% alcohol. Genuine slivovitz flames up if a match gets near!

Production around Lacko developed at the end of the nineteenth century. In 1912 a bottling plant was built there; it was destroyed during the Second World War. Since then, privately made slivovitz has been "forbidden fruit" in Poland. Home distilling of even the smallest amount of alcohol is illegal. But this same legal system protects the Lacko slivovitz name and production technology! The reason for this paradoxical situation is that in 1990 the local government in Lacko registered the recipe and name of it with the patent office to prevent unfair competition from the state monopoly. Slivovitz has also been entered in the national heritage register as a valuable element of local tradition. A tradition which is illegal to carry on . . .

But the force of tradition is strong. Every year the police eliminate thousands of liters of mash and destroy dozens of home stills, which are often marvels of ingenuity. The penalty for possessing a still can be a three-year jail sentence, though in practice the affair usually ends in a heavy fine. Despite this, trusted customers have no trouble discovering where to purchase one of those bottles with a photocopied label bearing a slogan known to every Pole:

Peps you up, colors the cheeks
That's our Lacko Slivovitz

22 posted on 09/09/2001 4:20:24 AM PDT by jpthomas
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To: zeromus
Also, if government didn't take liquor... there'd be no real incentive to produce it in the black market.

More power to the moonshiners. Anyone that shafts the Fed is OK in my book... But I won't drink it ;)

23 posted on 09/09/2001 6:18:09 AM PDT by DAnconia55
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To: JudyB1938, doug fiedor, muggs, fred mertz, Ssgt Mike
Will do.

Thanks.

24 posted on 09/09/2001 6:48:50 AM PDT by the irate magistrate
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To: the irate magistrate
--I've never seen a real working moonshine operation. They did have a bust around here last month for it. As I understand it, the main beef with the feds is paying the tax. Seems like you could just decide to go into the whiskey business legal, register, pay the tax. Lot of other companies do. I think for personal consumption it should be legalized with no tax, if you wish to sell it or give it away, tax it, same as beer or wine. Plenty of legal home brewers and vintners, and commercial micro breweries out there and mom and pop wine labels. What's wrong or illegal about a micro distillery? I say, have at it, probably floor the atf guys in the office you waltz in and register, and just go for it if that is your inclination. Hey, someone needs to try it with pot as well, all the federal law is a per ounce tax, I say someplace someone should actually try to do it legal. that would be an interesting court case, as the person trying it hasn't done anything whatsoever but actually follow the regulations in advance. If they say "no", could bust it wide open then. Same with a micro distillery for commercial use.

Drugs in general are a tricky business. I am not in favor of complete anarchy, but I am also in favor of government to a level that is not represented now by the government we have-it's too big and intrusive. I think if we had the strict limited government outlined by the constitution it would work out much better. And that includes ALL the indivual persons being a responsible part of "government", not just trying to push the envelope all the time into anarchy.

The deal(partly to be fair) with regulating any products has evolved to insure that people aren't harmed by others manufacturing products that are an actual severe risk to the consumer beyond their legal and dictionary definition. From what I understand, and as outlined in the article, some moonshine is made using very questionable practices, and is truly harmful, lead from car radiators comes to mind, or adding methanol which is a sever harmful substance to the ethanol produced. These things have happened frequently in the moonshine business. If it was "legal" I would imagine that anyone who wished to could cheaply get the equipment required and not have to resort to home made dangerous contraptions and practices. Looks like according the descriptions of the apparatus needed it might cost someone a couple hundred dollars in good stainless steel normal food quality equipment to start making it, a pressure cooker and some tubing, etc. That is a normal reasonable amount to start a business with I would think.

I feel the same way about other "drugs" I think there is a legit need to "promote the general welfare", but that part shouldn't interfere with indivduals right of freedom of association and owning and using your property until it becomes a menace to others. For an example, you own some land, but then you set up a perpetual trashfire burning dump that releases huge clouds of noxious crap that drift over to your neighbors property, thereby denying them their rights, or you massively pollute the aquifer that is shared with the neighbors. In cases like that, your insistence individual rights while ignoring your duties to help protect other's rights really are being abusive to your neighbors and should be regulated. The trick is to try and establish some standards that don't defy common sense.

In this particular case, I see no harm whatsoever in someone making their own beverage, as long as this beverage does not harm others from bad science manufacture. The taxation part should fund the regulatory part, and that's it a direct user fee because of the ramifications of bad manufacture. It's not an insistence that you are guilty in advance either, it's a common sense approach that it is very easy to manufacture this substance, and, frankly, quite harmful to other consumers if you aren't careful. it would defy common sense to require any consumer to be a degreeed chemist and to have to analyse any product themselves before use, that would be nuts.

I know the gov is way over the line of taxation and seizures, that is where it violates the spirit of the law and becomes abusive. Only decent answer I have is for the individual to be responsible, to set examples, and just go ahead and show that their manufacture is legit, then at the same exact time seek to always limit the government. Do both things. To get back to this exact example, this hasn't hurt jack daniels or wild turkey one bit, has it? If hundreds of moonshiners would just do this, perhaps it would help to quell the over zealousness part of government. They could lobby to reduce the tax burden if it could be shown it was unnecessarily high, that it massively stifled trade. Thier consumers would be in a position to help then, without being part of an "illegal conspiracy" or something of that nature. I say to always seek to stay agbove board and open in your dealings with government, and if millions more people would do just that maybe we could get ahandle on the abuisive part. just show an interest, and not just ignore everything and see what you can 'get away with". Do both things, live your life, work towewards regulating government all the time as part of living your life. Can't hurt any.

Another example, I believe in freedom to own and bear arms, that freedom doesn't mean I can set up a target range right on my property line with the neighbors house as the backstop, or that I can constantly walk around in public and pull heat and aim it at people. Same deal with booze I think.

Part- not all, but part- of the government's over-reaction to things in general and their travels down the road to over regulation and abusive authority is many millions of people over the generations complete utter contempt for their duties under the Constitution, they seek all the rights, but very little of the duties. The main duty for any individual who is part of this 'government"-that is you and me- is that you do not threaten others personal born-with rights. Millions of people have ignored that part, in spades. There is guilt a-plenty to go around, it's not just "abusive elected or appointed or hired-on government". "All of us" are the government, most people do not realize that part.

Now if it can be shown that yes, the "hired on employees of government" are using vague regulatory power as an excuse to seize property unrelated to any real crime, yes, it's abuse by government, and that is most evident now. I just think there needs to be as much personal control as possible first, give " employee government" no excuse to over regulate, take the moral and ethical and legal high ground all the time.

25 posted on 09/09/2001 7:06:50 AM PDT by zog
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To: Church Lady
This has been going on since the Whiskey Rebellion in George Washington's first term in office.

It's never going to stop.

Regards,

26 posted on 09/09/2001 7:11:18 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine (Chug a lug chug a lug, make you want to holler Hidee Ho!)
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To: the irate magistrate, JudyB1938, doug fiedor, muggs, fred mertz, Ssgt Mike
Here's one I found via Google:

[Click on Map for info]  

Southern Appalachian Biosphere Reserve

© 1995 by National Wilderness Institute.

27 posted on 09/09/2001 7:51:16 AM PDT by brityank
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To: zog, church lady, doug fiedor
Land seizures are the end game, with this trumped up news hysteria, in my opinion.

The UN map is from the leftist's creation in 1995 during the reign of terror by Clinton.

28 posted on 09/09/2001 8:12:44 AM PDT by the irate magistrate
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To: Church Lady
Whiskey first came to the mountains with Scots-Irish settlers, who mixed sugar and yeast into a tough brew.

Sugar? Where would they get that much sugar in the mountains? It's corn liquor, fergoodnissakes. Because it was easier to transport a few jugs of hooch down to the market than a wagonload of corn. And they got more for it, too.

29 posted on 09/09/2001 8:43:15 AM PDT by cunning
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To: In veno, veritas
One problem, not on this particular case, is making moonshine for your own consumption illegal?

I don't think making it for yourself is illegal but I'm not sure. I know it's legal to homebrew beer, even in Utah. You're not supposed to sell it but you can give it away. And you can't give it to anybody under age.

30 posted on 09/09/2001 12:44:53 PM PDT by Hillary 666
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To: Hillary 666
Railroad boxcars and trucks. The same place they "get" their mason jars.

By the way, Wilkes County, North Carolina had the distinction of being the moonshine capital of the world. Think NASCAR and Wilkes Motor Speedway for starters.

31 posted on 09/09/2001 6:20:46 PM PDT by doglot
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To: brityank, cc MouthOfSouth, Darth Sidious
Thanks a lot for that map. I knew Ashville was in there, but I didn't realize how far "in" it was. That is a HUGE piece of real estate!
32 posted on 09/09/2001 6:47:40 PM PDT by JudyB1938
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To: Church Lady
I'm glad to see this posted. When I used to post on WOsD threads, I'd make the point that there is still (no pun honest) considerable bootlegging of alcohol and tobacco to dodge taxes, and nobody would believe it.

I had no documentation other than from the tobacco tax problem. Here now is a document that shows quite a bit of illegal distillation going on.

I think there may be something to the land-grab hypothesis. Almost nothing we see in the news is there randomly.

33 posted on 09/09/2001 7:26:29 PM PDT by DBrow
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To: brityank
Thanks for the map. Fascinating aspect of folk culture.;^)
34 posted on 09/09/2001 7:32:14 PM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: Hillary 666
Wonder what Andy and Barney would do?
35 posted on 09/09/2001 7:47:13 PM PDT by Church Lady
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: Jimmy Valentine
This has been going on since the Whiskey Rebellion in George Washington's first term in office. It's never going to stop.

Thats when I was a little girl :)

37 posted on 09/09/2001 8:03:16 PM PDT by Church Lady
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To: damian5
Or shot dead as hell by a M-60 popping ATF Agent.

Something that scary might almost make Church Lady drink .Notice I said almost.

38 posted on 09/09/2001 8:08:16 PM PDT by Church Lady
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To: Church Lady
While I do frown on spirits

And you describe yourself as a redneck??? Shame on you!

39 posted on 09/09/2001 8:11:06 PM PDT by southern rock
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To: Church Lady
I do not know. And my post 30 is wrong. Homebrewing beer is legal but distilling hard alcholic beverages is not legal.
40 posted on 09/09/2001 8:15:14 PM PDT by Hillary 666
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