Strange Gods: Neopaganism On Campus.

National Review ^ | 9/5/01 | Peter Wood

[Uriel1975]

And now, for my "serious" post.

Right Wing Christian Fundamentalists should celebrate the incursions of post-modernist kookiness onto Ivy League campuses. To paraphrase a New York expression, "Whaddya done for me lately??" Are we sending our kids to these marxist breeding grounds for the next generation of the Communist International?? I certainly hope not. Hopefully, we're sending our kids to Capitalist/Theonomist schools like Christ College (the President of which was my Poli-Sci instructor, once upon a time). So how does this kind of "eye-of-newt" foolishness harm us, on the Christian Right? Answer: it doesn't. They were stealing our tax dollars for the subsidization of socialist indoctrination; now they'll be stealing our tax dollars for socialist indoctrination and wicca festivals, fer cryin' out loud. A few more parents will (hopefully) get fed up with this kookiness and pull their tuition-paying kids right out of these Ivory Tower bastions of Liberalism. Another reduction in the economic demand for tweedy marxist professors who would otherwise have to get a real job.

When the Leftist-dominated Ivy League traipses happily down the donnybrook trail of institutional self-destruction, why should right-wing Christian Fundamentalists care? And to the extent that we do care, why should we not hoist a beer (grape juice for our Southern Baptist brethren) and celebrate another small victory??

"Cess-pool of Leftist 'higher' educational Marxism embarasses itself to all concerned parents by endorsing rank silliness for purposes of 'religious diversity'. Christians... complain??"

Nah. No complaints here. Let the Left abort half their children and teach the other half to entertain whatever fool idea pierces their MTV-fogged brains. Meanwhile, the extreme Christian right (Orthodox Presbyterians and Calvinist Baptists) will continue to turn to homsechooling in ever-increasing numbers, where children are taught the important things: how to read the Bible, how to read the Constitution, and how to field-strip a semi-automatic rifle. Fast-forward two generations and let the chips fall where they may.

Never read Robert Anton Wilson (to my knowledge). Lovecraft consumed many an hour when I was 13-14, though. The last massive fiction serial I read was David Wingrove's 7-book Chung Kuo series. Critically reviewed as "a combination of all the best parts of Dune, Taipan/Noble House, and the Foundation trilogy... yet exceeding them all. Perhaps the definitive sci-fi masterwork of all time." Highly recommended.

[StoneColdGOP]

If I may speak for the Madman, I believe his statement would be as follows...

ROCK 'N' ROLL REBEL

THEY COULDN'T SEE WHAT I THOUGHT WOULD BE SO OBVIOUS
THEY HIDE BEHIND THE LAWS THEY MAKE FOR ALL OF US.
THE MINISTRY OF TRUTH AT DEALS WITH PRETENSE
THE MINISTRY OF PEACE THAT SITS ON DEFENSE
I'M WASHING MY HANDS OF WHAT THEY'RE TRYIN' TO DO
I'M BREAKING THE RULES AND ITS FOR ME AND FOR YOU.

I'M JUST A ROCK 'N' ROLL REBEL
I'LL TELL YOU NO LIES
THEY THINK I WORKSHIP THE DEVIL
THEY ONLY SEE THROUGH HIS EYES
I'M JUST A ROCK 'N' ROLL REBEL.

THEY LIVE THEIR LIVES IN FEAR AND INSECURITY
AND ALL YOU DO IS PAY FOR THEIR PROSPERITY
THE MINISTRY OF FEAR THAT WON'T LET YOU LIVE
THE MINISTRY OF GRACE THAT DOESN'T FORGIVE
DO WHAT YOU WILL TO TRY AND MAKE ME CONFORM
BUT I'LL MAKE YOU WISH THAT YOU HAD NEVER BEEN BORN

CAUSE I'M A ROCK 'N' ROLL REBEL
I'LL DO AS I PLEASE
I'M A ROCK 'N' ROLL REBEL
I'M A FREE AS THE BREEZE
I'M A JUST ROCK 'N' ROLL REBEL

THEY'LL TRY PLAYIN WITH YOUR HEART
THEY KNOW IT RULES YOUR HEAD
THEY ONLY FEEL WHAT BIGOTRY FEELS
THEY WON'T FOOL ME AGAIN

GOD ONLY KNOWS WHY THEY COULDN'T SEE THAT OBVIOUS
IS IT BECAUSE THEY MANIFEST THE INCUBUS
THE MINISTRY OF WAR THAT GOT CAUGHT IN THE DRAFT
THE MINISTRY OF JOY THAT STILL HASN'T LAUGHED
WHEN ITS ALL BOILD DOWN AND THE DAYS AT THE END
I'LL GIVE YOU NO BULLSH!T AND I'LL NEVER PRETEND

CAUSE I'M A ROCK 'N' ROLL REBEL
I'LL TELL YOU NO LIES
THEY SAY I WORKSHIP THE DEVIL
WHY DON'T THEY OPEN THEIR EYES...

I'M JUST A ROCK 'N'ROLL REBEL
A ROCK 'N' ROLL REBEL...

[keri]

While I'm at it, how do you other pagans have any idea whether or not you've gotten the "old formula" right, given that all you've got is some sketchy ancient sources?

I think it's true that Wiccans do a lot of research:-) I call myself pagan because others at FR have defined "pagan" as anyone not being Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. That is correct, but not the way it's most often used.

Some of the ancient sources I base my beliefs on are older than the Bible by hundreds of years, it is true, but they aren't sketchy. (anything but)

I don't understand what you mean by "old formula", since I don't practice sorcery. The closest I've been to that is reading Carlos Castaneda:-)

Religious wars are no fun, but learning about another religion can be, at least for me.

[StoneColdGOP]

Goodnight dude. Beware the demon five feet above...

[Anthem]

(Even Rightwing Calvinist Fundamentalists read Lovecraft as a kid... hey, what angst-ridden, working-class, somewhat literate teenager from the wrong side of the tracks hasn't?)

I musta hadda happier childhood than I thought. Angst? What me worry! Heck, I even thought Holden was doin' too much er.. hold'n. Fast girls and faster thrills -- on land, water and air was what we did. We did the Dew before it was a commercial. All to the soundtracks of LZ, Tull, and the working class lusts of Arrowsmith and BTO. No sissy stuff. Show'd the girls my poems, though.

[Mr. Vega]

"There's nothing on this stupid scroll, all it says is Hastur Hastur Hastur over and over again!"

Seriously, the author up above quotes Crowley's "Do What Thou Wilt" but doesn't quite get it right. Crowley believed that everyone had a particular role to occupy in life and that when they found and filled it, their desires would coincide with what was moral in a greater sense, and opportunities would open up.

Of course, his purpose seems to have been to live poorly as a founder of several small cults. But hey, if you want to read about someone trying to get recognition by engaging in all sorts of obscene practices (and failing miserably), do read his diaries. His dietary interests would make Ginsberg proud!

[Da_Shrimp]

It always fascinates me that a country that was founded on christian principle, natural rights, produces the greatest bunch of ingrates.

In what way does not being a Christian make me an 'ingrate?' I can be grateful for the traditions and history of my country without necessarily having to follow the state or majority religion.

I am an English Patriot. England comes first above all, with the UK second and Europe a very distant third. Most English Wiccans are proud of their country's traditions and history.

[A.J.Armitage]

Not that I thought you were actually interested, but it is always good to help things along by keeping them from getting off track.

I am, as I'm sure you know, a Christian. I'm hardly looking to become a pagan; you're right if you think I want to argue against paganism, but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in your information. I'd rather know what your actual position is, instead of getting everything wrong and looking stupid.

Celtic paganism: A few more sources than I thought at first, but hardly enough to say that almost nothing was lost. The main sources are the ones I already mentioned, Roman writers. Inscriptions and archeological evidence can tell you that this particular god was worshipped at a particular site, but not about what doctrines were held. If I'm not mistaken, Julius Caesar wrote that the druids kept everything memorized, not written down. If that's true, almost everything was lost.

Norse paganism: Trying to reconstruct Norse paganism from the Eddas and Pliny can be compared to trying to reconstruct Greek paganism from just Homer. You could do it, but there's a lot of other stuff. How do you know you haven't lost something important?

Of course, if you expect that proving you do have all the necessary information won't persuade me, you're right. No one would dispute that Hindu(or perhaps I should say Aryan) paganism has everything now that it ever had, and I'm not Hindu. There's still a question you would have to answer. Why should I believe that the native religion of a particular people has a claim to truth that other types of paganism and the later religions don't have?

[A.J.Armitage]

Some of the ancient sources I base my beliefs on are older than the Bible by hundreds of years, it is true, but they aren't sketchy. (anything but)

Which sources are those?

I don't understand what you mean by "old formula", since I don't practice sorcery.

I didn't mean formula as in spells, I mean it as in rituals, doctrines, and everything else in the "recipe" for a religion.

[cerberus]

You're kidding right?? Either that or your a liberal trying to perpetuate conservative stereotypes.

[dubyagee]

teachings I learned in your "church" were trash. Pure and utter trash - destined to separate me from society at large and destroy my fundamental aspect of my free will. I got a chance to hear it firsthand this week, at a funeral, after a long hiatus - and I judged it sick and heartbreaking that so many people I like have been sucked in.

That would definitely be a problem for a Christian outlook, since "separation" and "giving up your free will" are key to trusting Jesus.

[Dead Corpse]

Why should I believe that the native religion of a particular people has a claim to truth that other types of paganism and the later religions don't have?

That was one of the points I was tryin' ta make. No one group of people can lay a claim to the Absolute Truth. It is the one thing that NONE of us will know until we are dead.

Over eons, all types of information about earlier times has been lost. Who can say for certain that all of the info we have on Christianity is 100% accurate? How many times has the Bible been re-writen, sometimes by those with questionable motives? What about the Gospel of St. Thomas found near the Dead Sea that the Vatican rejects as heresy? What other bits did they leave out?

As for the Celts and the Norse, just because I only listed a couple of really quick sources, do not think that this is all there is. That'd be like saying that the only thing we know about Christ came from the Council of Nicea. Oral traditions gave way to more permanent methods of recording. Leaf Books, ogham script, and pictitorial enscriptions all have played a part in preserving quite a bit of the beliefs of those cultures. Not to mention the writings of middle eastern visitors and teh Romans.

As for what my personal faith should mean to others, nothing. I live my life as I see fit. I don't have the moral authority to tell others how to live. If my "leadership by example" makes others curious about my beliefs, I'd be happy to share my viewpoints. Forcing someone, through government interdiction or otherwise, undermines any moral stance I could have claimed.

Forcing someone to believe something I want them to negates any responsibility they may have had in making that decision. The ultimate, "The Devil made me do it" type of dodge.

[BrucefromMtVernon]

I just saw a Witch Priestess on the grounds of the U.S. Capitol the other day, Hillary the Rodhamite....

[A.J.Armitage]

Why should I believe that the native religion of a particular people has a claim to truth that other types of paganism and the later religions don't have?

That was one of the points I was tryin' ta make. No one group of people can lay a claim to the Absolute Truth.

That's not the point I was trying to make. There is such a thing as truth, and we can know it. Not claim it as if it were a possession, because it's external to us, just know what it is. You obviously think the things you believe are true, otherwise you wouldn't believe them. I was asking why you think they're true, or at least more likely to be true.

Over eons, all types of information about earlier times has been lost. Who can say for certain that all of the info we have on Christianity is 100% accurate? How many times has the Bible been re-writen, sometimes by those with questionable motives?

Many times. Fortunately, the vast majority of texts agree with each other, even when there's been no interaction with the holders of other texts of the same type. For some of the books, there are fragments as early as the first century.

What about the Gospel of St. Thomas found near the Dead Sea that the Vatican rejects as heresy? What other bits did they leave out?

You're implying that the book of Thomas was part of the Bible to begin with, and was taken out. It wasn't.

Forcing someone, through government interdiction or otherwise, undermines any moral stance I could have claimed.

Why would you think I have any interest in doing that?

[keri]

Sorry I misunderstood what you meant by "old formula." I should have realized what you meant...

Doctrines and rituals I don't have, but "everything else in the recipe" that makes up a religion, maybe.

The sources I use are: the Mahabharata and Upanishads; commentary of Shankara and Sri Aurobindo. I'm not hindu, but I *am* genuinely curious about Jesus beyond the usual description.