Eateries say smoking ban hurts

JS Online ^ | March 24, 2001 | DAVID COLE

[Just another Joe]

Eateries say smoking ban hurts

Kenosha restaurants cite low sales, seek waivers

By DAVID COLE
Special to the Journal Sentinel

Last Updated: March 24, 2001

Kenosha - A little more than three months after it took effect, the city's ban on smoking in restaurants is running into trouble.

As many as 41 restaurants plan to apply for a two-year exemption from the ban because of the impact it has had on business, according to an accountant for the establishments. Two have already done so.

The restaurants qualify for the exemption because sales at each have dropped at least 10% in the ordinance's first three months, said accountant Stanley Ginkowski. The businesses, mostly family-style restaurants and coffeehouses, blame the smoking ban for the decline, he said.

According to the ordinance, a business is eligible for a one-time, maximum two-year exemption if revenue decreases 10% or more in a three-month period compared with the same time in the previous three years. Restaurants that apply for an exemption must receive the City Council's approval.

If the exemptions are sought and granted, they would effectively gut the new ordinance, Ald. Steve Casey said Tuesday.

"This is a mess the city got themselves into, and it'll be interesting to see how they wiggle their way out," he said.

Casey voted against the ordinance when it was adopted last fall in part because the measure included a series of amendments designed to broaden support for the proposal. Instead, the amendments created confusion, enforcement problems and disparities between restaurants and taverns that serve food, Casey said.

Two Kenosha restaurants - both co-owned by Wisconsin Restaurant Association President Gary Anderson of Kenosha - were granted exemptions last week by the City Council.

The next day, employees at Andy's Restaurant and Andy's Drive-in immediately reinstituted their smoking and non-smoking sections.

Andy's Restaurant lost slightly more than 10% of its sales after the ban, prompting the restaurant to buy less from suppliers and cut employees' hours, co-owner Bill Anderson said.

"I've seen some of my regular customers come back that I haven't seen in three months," said Bill Anderson.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Appeared in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel on March 25, 2001.

[Just another Joe]

A little dated but it shows that the folks who say businesses aren't hurt by a total smoking ban are full of it.

[Just another Joe]

Take a look. 41 eateries! How many eateries are NOT asking for a waiver?

[DoughtyOne]

Just saw a factoid on another thread where restaurant sales are down 23% due to the economy.

[SheLion]

Joe, our Pat's Pizza had to go non-smoking two years ago. They had a room up front for non-smokers and smoking in the bar/sports area. Plus, you could have a meal. When they went smoke free, we didn't go back.

A year later, they changed their liquor license, and put the smoking section back in at the bar. We went back to celebrate. And that's who gets our money and our tips!

[mewzilla]

We visited Vermont a few months ago. All the state's restaurants were smoke-free. The waitstaff said it hadn't hurt business a bit, that even more folks were coming since they didn't have to smell smoke while they ate. The waitstaff also mentioned that they appreciated not having to worry about the health of their lungs.

[Just another Joe]

How many of ALL the states restaurants did you visit?
Who did you talk to, the staff, or the owner/operator of the establishment? The staff normally have very little idea of the overall sales of their workplace.
I appreciate your input but more facts and less anecdotal evidence would be appreciated.

[VRWC_minion]

I am an accountant and I assume the city never defined sales very strictly. I could probably find a way to show a 10% decrease in a three month period for any restaurant. <

To begin with compare a quarter with 12 weekend periods to one with 13.

[SheLion]

Restaurants are supposed to be for the public. It appears to me that they are more "private" now, that they do not and cannot accommodate the entire "public." Pity.

[Demosthenes]

The whole smoking thing is a joke. Even here in SF Bay, where it's illegal in ALL public buildings, I know of many bars who just dont give a s--t. They let their patrons smoke anyway, and if somebody complains, they inform them that they can either choose not to visit again, or go find a cop.

I saw this in the Haight one night, and the bartender/owner said it to a snotty lib girl and through the whole exchange, he had a Marlboro dangling from his mouth...LOL...

[Gabz]

I find your anecdote to be very interesting, as all of my husband's family and many of our friends are still in New England and told us the opposite is true regarding what the wait staff in various restaurants in Vermont and Maine are saying.

But anecdotes are just that, personal experiences. Your experience is no less valid than the person with the opposite experience.

[SheLion]

Demosthenes! Sounds like "my" kind of place. heh! :)

[SheLion]

Gabz, he's just "blowing his own smoke!"

[Madame Dufarge]

A year later, they changed their liquor license, and put the smoking section back in at the bar.

Hi, SheLion. I believe it costs an establishment an additional $700/yr or so to get the tavern license which allows smoking. Just another shakedown by the state. Pat's not only lost revenue all the time they had a smoking ban, they get to ante up another $700 for a new license.

Extortion, pure and simple.

[wheezer]

The waitstaff also mentioned that they appreciated not having to worry about the health of their lungs.

Wow, I've never heard a waitperson mention that. Most I know (and I know quite a few) are pretty indifferent. They tend to be concerned with the big tippers.

I have one friend with a small restuarant here in NYC, he actually removed two tables instead of having to ban smoking.

[SheLion]

Hi Madame!!! Yes, that's why we went back to celebrate! They get our business all the time. I was so happy, because it's my favorite place up here to eat, smoke and relax. And in the bar/sports area, it a lot of fun! :) I sure appreciate what they did to get us (the smokers) back. I am sure they lost a lot of business. There were rumors of them getting a license or closing. They opt for the license, thank God.

[A CA Guy]

It was the smoking ban and not a near recession?
BS all the way, we've had no smoking for years in CA and we do great. This to will get better. But a recession is hurting restraunts most!

[mewzilla]

Just out of curiosity, do all the folks who don't like smoke-free restaurants smoke around their kids or while they were pregnant? And if you are considerate enough not to do around your loved ones, especially kids or elders with health problems, why would you be willing to do it to complete strangers who would have to breath it for hours a day? Just asking...

And there is a statewide ban on smoking in Vermont. I'm not going to post a link, they're easy enough to find. But for those who don't believe me, feel free to light up and see what happens.

[Just another Joe]

Did'nt say anything about a quarter, they said three months. Also, they had to compare with a three month period for each year three years prior.

[SheLion]

I was born into a house of smokers, I grew up with smokers, I worked with smokers for many years. I smoke.

It wasn’t until about 8 years ago that the ban became really bad.

I hear the truckers refuse to stop in Vermont now, because of the smoking bans.

I also heard there are U-Haul It’s taking people out of California every day now. So, that doesn’t sound like CA or VT are doing too well, to me.

[Just another Joe]

Just out of curiosity, do all the folks who don't like smoke-free restaurants smoke around their kids or while they were pregnant?

Yes, I do smoke around my children. While I'm in my house or in my car I do smoke around my children. I didn't smoke around my wife when she was pregnant because I wasn't around much, I was in the Navy at sea most of the time.