Posted on 11/04/2025 4:54:45 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum
Let’s quote the very next paragraph you omitted (CCC 970): “This maternal function of Mary… in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows the power of Christ's unique mediation. […] Her subordinate cooperation depends entirely on the mediation of Christ.”
And the footnote you skipped (512) points to Vatican II (Lumen Gentium 62): “This maternal role of Mary… flows from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it; in no way does it hinder the immediate union of believers with Christ, but fosters it.”
Sunmarizing it:
1. Saving office = intercessory prayer, not redemption.
2. Brings us the gifts = distributes what Christ already purchased (like the moon reflects the sun).
3. Explicitly subordinate and entirely dependent on Christ’s unique mediation (1 Tim 2:5).
The Church formally rejected “Co-redemptrix” as a title in 2024 precisely to avoid the confusion you just created (Mater Populi Fidelis, §25-26).
B You quoted CCC 969 accurately.
You omitted the immediate clarification in CCC 970 and LG 62.
That omission changed the meaning.
Read the full text, not half.
Christ remains the sole Redeemer.
Mary remains the greatest intercessor.
No contradiction. ✝️
Your “gotcha” just blew up in your face.
That link? Rome’s Challenge is four 1893 articles from Catholic Mirror not the Catechism
Scripture shows it:
- Acts 20:7 – Christians meet first day to break bread.
- 1 Cor 16:2 – Collections first day.
- Rev 1:10 – Lord’s Day = Sunday.
- Ignatius (AD 110): “No longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day.”
We didn’t “change God’s law”—we applied it under the New Covenant (Heb 7:12).
Your SDA cult invents a law that Gentiles were never given (Acts 15:28-29).
Now let’s talk real clownery—Seventh-day Adventism:
1. Ellen White = false prophet.
- Predicted Christ’s return 1844 → failed.
- Plagiarized 80% of her “visions.”
- Taught Jesus = Michael the archangel (heresy, Heb 1:5-8).
- Deuteronomy 18:22: false prophet = stone her.
2. Investigative Judgment = 1844 fiction.
- Christ “entered the Most Holy Place” in 1844? Hebrews 9:12 says once for all at the Ascension.
- Salvation by works + Sabbath? Galatians 5:4: fallen from grace.
3. Soul sleep / annihilation = unbiblical.
- Luke 23:43: “Today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
- 2 Cor 5:8: “Absent from the body, present with the Lord.”
Your entire religion was born from a failed prophecy, propped up by a plagiarist.
Repent.
Leave the 1844 cult.
The real Church has been keeping the Lord’s Day for 2,000 years.
The Eucharist is waiting.
Christ’s Body—not Ellen’s books.
No more spin. Just truth.
Nice try; no dice. CCC calls her Mediatrix and assigns her authority she doesn’t have.
Hoss
____That link? Rome’s Challenge is four 1893 articles from Catholic Mirror not the Catechism
Scripture shows it:
- Acts 20:7 – Christians meet first day to break bread.
- 1 Cor 16:2 – Collections first day.
- Rev 1:10 – Lord’s Day = Sunday.____
I never said it was from the Catechism Genius. Rome’s Challenge is brilliant theology produced by the Catholic Mirror, the official organ of the archdiosese of Baltimore Maryland at the time. Look it up.
And how dumb are you? Those texts are explained by these Catholic scholars as are every text in the NT that mentions the “first day” and they MOCK anyone who thinks those first day texts change the Sabbath.
You really are kinda dumb. Read it again. It’s a challenge to Protestants from Catholics. WHY DO YOU KEEP SUNDAY IF YOU CLAIM TO FOLLOW THE BIBLE!!!
And they say only Seventh day Adventists are the only PROTESTANTS who follow the Bible in this regard. They refer to us as an insignificant sect. But tha’ts ok. I’ll own that.
I didn’t realize how stupid you really are. I knew this was way above your head.
Hoss,
Directly to your Ephesians point: We were "dead" (Eph 2:1), incapable of initiating salvation—God alone revives us first (v. 4-5: "made us alive... by grace").
The analogy adjusts: God resurrects the "corpse" from the ocean floor, enabling it to grasp (or reject) the ring. That's the "through faith" in v. 8—God's gift, but our enabled response (v. 10: "walk in [the works]").
Mary's fiat exemplifies this enabled yes (Luke 1:38, post-grace in 1:28). All God's work; our cooperation follows revival.
In Ephesians 2:1-10, Mary's cooperation exemplifies the process: God first revives her from spiritual death through prevenient grace (v. 4-5; cf. her "full of grace" state in Luke 1:28), enabling her free "fiat" (Luke 1:38) as the faith-response (v. 8) to participate in His plan without earning merit.
This subordinate synergy—God initiating, Mary responding—mirrors how all believers "walk in" the good works God prepares (v. 10), with her unique role as Theotokos amplifying and in no way equaling Christ's redemptive work.
No monergism required—Ephesians demands synergy. ✝️
Luircin “it’s funny when the Protestant filth (ealgeone)”
Why do you address him so nastily?
As a Lutheran, do you consider him filth because he rejects your belief in the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist?
As a Lutheran is the reason you consider him as filth is because he rejects your, Lutheran, view that Baptism is a means of grace through which God gives his grace?
I make zero claims of prophecy, so you hurling "false prophet" is like those referred to in (Matt 7:1-5).
net-net: Mary intercedes **to** the Mediator (CCC 969-970 qualifies: subordinate, dependent on Christ). Your solo-scriptura blinders ignore the Bible's own prayer chain.
“This maternal function of Mary… in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. […] Her subordinate cooperation depends entirely on the mediation of Christ.”
“This maternal role of Mary… flows from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it; in no way does it hinder the immediate union of believers with Christ, but fosters it.”
Regarding your "recent change" accusation - that is, like the normal stuff in your posts, nonsense - historical record obliterates this. "Mediatrix" dates to the early Church: Attributed to St. Ephrem the Syrian (4th century) in prayers; formalized in Vatican II's Lumen Gentium (1964, §62: "Mediatrix" as maternal intercession); used by popes like Leo XIII (1891) and John Paul II (multiple times, e.g., Redemptoris Mater, 1987). The 2024 Vatican note (Mater Populi Fidelis) cautions against overuse to avoid confusion, but affirms its historical, limited sense—not a reversal, but prudence. No "change"; continuity since antiquity.
969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfilment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."The intercession is as in the Bible - —Mary prays like all saints (Rev 5:8; 1 Tim 2:1; her Cana plea, John 2:1-11).970 "Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power.
But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it
."511 "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."
All Grace flows from Christ as seen in 970
Biblically, Mary intercedes as at Cana (John 2:1-11, her plea prompts Jesus' miracle) and saints pray in heaven (Rev 5:8; 8:3-4), fulfilling the command for intercessions (1 Tim 2:1).
This is not added authority—Christ alone mediates; Mary prays to Him for our sakes. ✝️
Your credibility = zero.
And not just for this issue.
Let me explain SDA isn't "Protestant" leave alone Christian — Seventh Day Adventism is a 19th-century doomsday non-Christian religion spawned from Millerite failure, led by a plagiarizing liar, with anti-Christian doctrines straight from the pit.
Here's the brutal truth:Your "prophetess" failed Deuteronomy 18:22's test repeatedly and her false prophecies include:.
- Christ she prophesied would return in 1844 (failed, twice);
- Jerusalem would never be rebuilt (it's thriving);
- England declares war on US in Civil War (nope);
- slaves never freed (Emancipation Proclamation);
She plagiarized 80% of her "visions" from others, rewrote history to cover flops, and taught health quackery
Sites listing her fraud:
Satan loves false prophets (Matt 24:24) like your founder Ellen
. - Non-Trinitarian Founders of the SDA
SDA pioneers (James White, Joseph Bates, J.N. Andrews) were rabid anti-Trinitarians, calling the Trinity "unscriptural" and "pagan" until the 1930s.Your Adventist founders denied the Holy Spirit as a Person, saw Him as a "force."
Your "official" Trinitarian flip in 1980 (under Froom's whitewash) doesn't erase the Arian roots—Satanic denial of God's nature (John 1:1; Matt 28:19).
Seventh Day Adventism as a tenet of faith believes that Jesus = Michael the Archangel: SDAs teach Christ is "Michael" pre-incarnate, an angelic title—demoting God to created being level (Heb 1:5-8: "To which angel did God say 'You are My Son'?"). This strips Jesus' divinity (Col 2:9).
This is another Satanic lie of Adventism.
- The SDA Investigative Judgment: 1844 Fiction: Your core doctrine—Christ "entered the Most Holy Place" in 1844 to "investigate" sins—is Millerite damage control for the Great Disappointment. Hebrews 9:12 says He entered "once for all" at Ascension, not 1844.
SDA is Satanic—false prophetess founder, anti-Trinitarian founders, Christ-diminishing doctrines. Flee this cult (Rev 18:4). Join the real Church. Mass awaits. No more excuses, Vespa—truth hurts, but it saves. ✝️
I do not recognize Didache or Ignatious superceding the Bible in authority. The Sabbath is not Jewish Law, it is God’s Law. In place at creation. ReINSTITUTED GODS Law at Mt. Sinai. God’s Law is perfect and permanent. The Bible says so. Are you still promoting your Nonalogue? The Ten Comandments were wrote in stone by God’s own finger. It’s hard to get around that.
No "timeframe limitation"—that's your invention to evade refutation.
Credibility zero? Yours tanked with baseless accusations and zero counter-evidence.
Address the substance and for a change actually read a Biblical book as a whole rather than in excerpts. ✝️
970 "Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power.
Totally false. Nor does Scripture ever teach nor encourage anyone to pray to mary - nor do we have any record of the Apostles doing it. Made out of whole cloth.
But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from itThe intercession is as in the Bible - —Mary prays like all saints (Rev 5:8; 1 Tim 2:1; her Cana plea, John 2:1-11).
None of those verses shows that saints in heaven pray for us - nor that Mary ever did.
Make whatever claims you wish, but it is totally assumed and made up to backfill paganism.
This is why is is fruitless to ever respond to your posts. You fill them with non-biblical nonsense and leave them for others to correct. Unfortunately, it is doubly fruitless because I've never seen it demonstrated that you seek truth - only Roman validation of what you pre-believed.
Since I cannot fill a cup that is already filled, I leave you too your own and wish you the best.
1. Didache (c. AD 70) and Ignatius (AD 107) don't "supersede" the Bible—they reflect Apostolic practice :
Didache 14: "But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving..." Ignatius, Magnesians 9: "...no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him..."These are 1st/2nd-century witnesses to NT fulfillment (Acts 20:7; Rev 1:10), not additions. Dismiss them? You're dismissing the disciples of the Apostles' who learnt from the Apostles who learnt from Christ.
In contrast you learn from a false prophetess and non-Trinitarian founders
2. Sabbath "at creation"?
Do read—Genesis 2:3 says God rested and blessed the day, but ZERO command for humans:
There was NO pre-Sinai Sabbath-keeping by patriarchs (Gen 26:5 lists laws Abraham kept—Sabbath absent).
God "made known" the Sabbath at Sinai (Neh 9:13-14; Ezek 20:12), specifically for Israel as a sign (Ex 31:13,17). Your "God's Law" claim ignores the Mosaic context (Deut 5:2-3: "not with our fathers").
3. "Reinstated" at Sinai? for Israel, under the Old Covenant:
The Ten were "written in stone" (Ex 31:18), but Paul calls that ministry "engraved on stones... of death... passing away" (2 Cor 3:3,7-11). New Covenant? Law on hearts (Jer 31:33; Heb 8:10), with Sabbath as "shadow" fulfilled in Christ (Col 2:16-17: "Let no one judge you... regarding a sabbath").
4. Sabbath was tied to Exodus from Egypt (Deut 5:15), a sign for Israel (Ex 31:13). Acts 15:28-29 frees Gentiles from it (no Sabbath in the requirements). Paul: "One esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike" (Rom 14:5-6).
Your "permanent" claim? Jesus broke Sabbath rules to heal (John 5:18), declaring Himself Lord over it (Mark 2:28).
"Nonalogue"? Cute—we Christians honor all Ten, and the Sabbath command finds fulfillment in the Resurrection Day (Lord's Day), not legalistic Saturday-keeping.
Your SDA obsession attempts to drag Christians back under the yoke the Apostles removed (Acts 15:10; Gal 4:9-10).
Drop the Ellen White playbook, Bob—her failed prophecies and Michael-Jesus heresy make SDA a 19th-century cult, not biblical faith. Repent, join the real Church. Sunday Mass: Resurrection banquet awaits. ✝️
Attaboy….keep up those false accusations and your mortal sin.
Apostolic Practice? Judas was an Apostle and learned from Christ. But he sinned and betrayed his best Friend. I do not know if Ignatious is being correctly quoted nor care. 2Cor 3 is contrasting the differences of the Old Covenant a d the New. “The letter” referred to is the attempt to achieve salvation by the letter of the law but not being led to the spirit of the law. The Mosaic laws expired on the cross but not God’s Law. God’s Law can never expire. They define sin. If there was no Law, we could do as we please (like Cain did). But that is not the case. The Sabbath will be observed in Heaven but you have to make it there to partake.
Gotta give you this: you spin like a Clinton.
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