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To: buwaya

If Ukraine is historically part of Russia then your point is without merit.


116 posted on 07/13/2023 11:05:51 AM PDT by reasonisfaith (What are the personal implications if the Resurrection of Christ is a true event in history?)
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To: buwaya

No, there are not “many sorts of nationalists.”

Classic technique of deception: attempt to divide an idea into many separate (but fake) ideas.


117 posted on 07/13/2023 11:07:45 AM PDT by reasonisfaith (What are the personal implications if the Resurrection of Christ is a true event in history?)
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To: reasonisfaith

“History” ran into a buzz-saw in the 19th century. Nationalism was invented (yes, it was an invention) in the course of the Romantic movement and the legacy of the French Revolution. Along with other Romantic ideologies, such as socialism, but that’s another thread.

Parts of several empires developed a particular, divergent view of themselves. Hence the Czechs, Poles, Croats, etc. Even the Belgians decided they couldn’t be one with the Dutch. This began an age of revolutions and the roots of many nations, along with irredentism (”Italia Irredenta!”).

At the same time new empires developed the same types of ideologies. Hence the creation of Italy and Germany out of disparate parts, hence the intense propaganda of the French Third Republic. You realize that much of France, in the days of the monarchy, didn’t speak French?

Spain is a case in point. Inspired by the French Revolution, many Spanish people for the first time began to see themselves as a particular Spanish identity, not as Castillians or Agagonese, etc. This became a liberal trope among the elite, hence the centralizing policies intended to erase the many ethnicities of Spain, which drove a couple of civil wars.

And this caused a reaction, whereby many formerly contented peoples of Spain formed counter-nationalisms. If you care, you can look at, say, the argument between Miguel Unamuno, the Basque Catholic Spanish nationalist and Sabino Arana, the Basque racial bigot who wanted Basque independence from Spain.

Ukraine had the same sort of nationalist awakening. But it had, until the collapse of that last European empire, the Soviet Union, very bad luck.

This is very complicated stuff. It requires a deep dive into modern European history to comprehend the whole.


128 posted on 07/13/2023 2:57:02 PM PDT by buwaya (Strategic imperatives )
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