WHY ARE SO MANY IN THE WEST LYING ABOUT UKRAINE’S CASUALTIES?

A Son of tge America Revolution ^ | 15 Feb 23 | Larry Johnson

[BroJoeK]

Forward the Light Brigade: "BINGO! Next see more “False Flag” events. Hitler-Putin using poison gas, Targeting Children, Rape squads to attack brave Ukrainian women soldiers, Dirty Nuke bombs, Vacuum Bombs on Schools and hospitals, Poison wells and water supply, etc..."

Rubbish! The truth of Russian atrocities is plenty awful enough.
Russian troops have brutalized and terrorized Ukrainian civilians, Russian artillery & rockets have targeted Ukrainian civilians and civilian infrastructure.
The death toll of Ukrainian civilians is in the range of 30,000.
All of them died horribly, there's no need to exaggerate.

Forward the Light Brigade: "In Truth Zelensky NEEDs a “Lusitania Moment” to secure western support and armies.
Without them, they will be bled dry by Russia—over time.
Without Western aid how long would Ukraine last? A week? a Month?
Can the west keep this up for years?
Do they want too?"

They have to, they have no choice because a Russian victory over Ukraine will increase Russia's population by 30% and make their next aggressions that much easier to accomplish.
It will also encourage other two-bit tin-horn dictators to aggress their weaker neighbors.
That world will not be friendly to Americans or our ideals.
It will be more like the world of January, 1914.

[BroJoeK]

"So that leads to the simple question: Why pick fights with Russia and China when our militaries have degraded to such decrepit levels - even Hitler and FDR first built up their militaries before starting wars.
Answer - sheer stupidity, and I, for one, would not mind seeing these leaders get SPANKED, probably for the first time in their sordid lives."

And therein you touch on one fundamental insanity of those opposing our support for Ukraine -- they say: since we are not perfect as human beings, or as a political ideal, therefore we cannot legitimately defend our interests and help Ukraine against Russian aggression.

That kind of thinking is literally suicidal, and we see it often these days.
George Soros elected district attorneys tell is they cannot prosecute proportionately more perps of one race (i.e., black) than they do of another race (i.e., white).
So "excess" black crime has to be ignored until they've prosecuted enough white criminals to justify more prosecutions of blacks.
It's utterly insane, socially suicidal and guaranteed to produce injustice in the name "equity".

And the core of it is the argument that unless we are perfect, we cannot legitimately defend our vital interests against those who wish to destroy them.

For sure, we should clean up our act and defeat the George Soros Democrats, but it's pure suicidal insanity to argue that Soros Democrats mean we can't defend our vital national interests.

[BobL]

“And therein you touch on one fundamental insanity of those opposing our support for Ukraine — they say: since we are not perfect as human beings, or as a political ideal, therefore we cannot legitimately defend our interests and help Ukraine against Russian aggression.”

Unless you’re a 5-year old, you know that WE PICKED THE FIGHTS with Russia and China. That is my question here, not whether we should now fight with a depleted military - it’s too late for that.

Again, the question is why pick the fight BEFORE arming up for it. All they had to do was arm-up for a few years, and they’d have half of Russia by now - that is my point - they were IDIOTS to pick the fight NOW...with hollowed out militaries.

[BroJoeK]

BobL: "Unless you’re a 5-year old, you know that WE PICKED THE FIGHTS with Russia and China.
That is my question here, not whether we should now fight with a depleted military - it’s too late for that."

If you truly believe that, then you've been drinking Russian propaganda Kool-Aid by the barrel!
It's complete rubbish & nonsense.

1. Pearl Harbor was a legitimate provocation for war.
2. September 11, 2001 was a legitimate provocation for war.
3. Hitler's invasion of the USSR in 1941 was a legitimate provocation for war.
4. Hitler's 1939 invasion of Poland in 1939 was a legitimate provocation for war.

I could go on and on -- nothing that happened from 2014 until today was a legitimate provocation for Vlad the Invader's invasions of Ukraine.

Vlad the Invader's claims he was "provoked" are just as valid as a rapist claiming he was "provoked" by a pretty girl.
It's insane, has nothing to do with reality.

[Navy Patriot]

I was in the Navy that DOESN’T service Zelensky bent over Bro.

[BobL]

“If you truly believe that, then you’ve been drinking Russian propaganda Kool-Aid by the barrel!
It’s complete rubbish & nonsense.”

Since you cannot deal with reality beyond that of a 5-year old, I’ll keep my discussions to the ADULTS on this forum.

[BroJoeK]

Navy Patriot: "I was in the Navy that DOESN’T service Zelensky bent over Bro."

So, in your language, that means the Russian navy.
Welcome to Free Republic, Comrade.

[BroJoeK]

BobL: "Since you cannot deal with reality beyond that of a 5-year old, I’ll keep my discussions to the ADULTS on this forum."

That's the most childish response I've seen here in a long time.

It's a fact that you've been drinking Russian propaganda Kool-Aid, regardless of whether you are legally an adult or not.

[BobL]

“That’s the most childish response I’ve seen here in a long time.”

You’re the one implying that history began one year ago, not me. That’s what 5 year olds on this forum claim. Man-up a bit, get off CNN, and learn about US INVOLVEMENT in Ukraine long before last year, including getting in bed with the Azovs (Nazis) there. But given your age, I’ll check back in 13 years or so.

[BroJoeK]

BobL: "Man-up a bit, get off CNN, and learn about US INVOLVEMENT in Ukraine long before last year, including getting in bed with the Azovs (Nazis) there."

All that is totally, 100% irrelevant to the FACT that Vlad the Invader invaded Ukraine without any serious provocation.
Nor has Vlad claimed any serious justification beyond his insane desire to restore the old Tsarist and Soviet empires.

If you believe Nazis are the "real reason" then you've been drinking Russian propaganda Kool-Aid, regardless of how old you pretend to be.

BobL: "But given your age, I’ll check back in 13 years or so."

In 13 years I'll be nearing 90 and if you're still drinking Russian Kool-Aid, I'll come and spank your sorry but, boy.
Get off it, now!

[BobL]

“All that is totally, 100% irrelevant to the FACT that Vlad the Invader invaded Ukraine without any serious provocation.”

Well, you go convince Vlad of that, and Dmitry, and Boris, and Gorby, because they all PROMISED this outcome if a move was made to have Ukraine join NATO...and it was done in 2008. In my opinion, Russia waited too long to clean up their backyard, as they made the IDIOTIC MISTAKE of trusting the West.

...but then you know all of the above, but continue to act like it never happened, as a 5 year-old would act.

[Navy Patriot]

Says Uke.

[BroJoeK]

BobL: "Well, you go convince Vlad of that, and Dmitry, and Boris, and Gorby, because they all PROMISED this outcome if a move was made to have Ukraine join NATO"

Those are still more lies.
In fact, no Russian leader before Vlad the Invader threatened to invade Ukraine over NATO.
Indeed, Vlad's 2014 invasion was not over NATO, instead, Vlad's pretexts were the Maiden protests and the resulting overthrow of pro-Russian President Yanukovych.

In truth, before Vlad's invasion and annexation in 2014, Ukraine's government was officially neutral and friendly to all, with no firm plans to join NATO.
Before 2014, only a very small minority of Ukrainians favored NATO membership.

After Vlad's first invasion in 2014, everything changed in Ukraine and it made moves to solidify relations with NATO, though STILL no formal MAP -- Membership Action Plan.
Even today there is no NATO MAP for Ukraine.

The real truth is that every move of Ukraine towards the European alliances was driven by Vlad's aggressions against Ukraine.

BobL: "In my opinion, Russia waited too long to clean up their backyard, as they made the IDIOTIC MISTAKE of trusting the West."

Sure, from the perspective of an insane Russian imperialist who lusts for the old Tsarist and Soviet Empire, letting Ukraine be independent and allied with Europe is the worst possible outcome.
It's the death of their dream, the end of their inspiring vision of a world-power Russia dominating all its "little brothers" in Ukraine and elsewhere.

But you'll just have to get over it.
It's gone, you'll never again rule over, subjugate, dominate and brutalize people who don't want you there.
Give your old dream a decent burial, and then go on with life.
You might start by fixing what's wrong in your own country, Russia -- yes, I'm certain there's plenty to be fixed there and you might start by fixing Vlad the Invader.

[BroJoeK]

"Says Uke."

Says Vlad the Invader.

[BobL]

“In fact, no Russian leader before Vlad the Invader threatened to invade Ukraine over NATO.”

What part of RED LINE do you not understand. Are you implying that Russia was going to file a claim at the World Court and be done with it?

If the Neocons REFUSE to respect RED LINES, then they get this outcome, and they DESERVE it.

[BroJoeK]

BobL: "What part of RED LINE do you not understand.
Are you implying that Russia was going to file a claim at the World Court and be done with it?"

Your "red line", Vlad, was not the language of "Dmitry, and Boris, and Gorby", concerning NATO.
Even you, Vlad, did not use the language of "red line" over NATO before your 2014 invasion.
Instead, you hid your invasion under cover of claimed local insurrections in Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk.
The real issue then was not NATO but rather Euro-Maidan protests and the overthrow of your Ukraine puppet, Yanukovych.

BobL: "If the Neocons REFUSE to respect RED LINES, then they get this outcome, and they DESERVE it."

Those are total lies, Vlad, because you long before confessed that "red lines" had NOTHING to do with it, instead, you were moving militarily to "correct" the "mistakes" of Nikita Khruschev in 1954 and Boris Yeltsin in 1991 when Ukraine, including Crimea, was recognized and guaranteed independence by Russia!

Indeed, Vlad, you've forgotten your own history -- in 1994 Russian Pres. Boris Yeltsin wanted to join NATO!!

"In 1994, Russia officially signed up to the NATO Partnership for Peace, a program aimed at building trust between NATO and other European and former Soviet countries.
President Bill Clinton described it in January 1994 as a “track that will lead to NATO membership.”"

As late as 2000 you, Vlad, talked about joining NATO with our president Slick Willie.
Even in 2002 you were cooperating with NATO in the NATO-Russia Council (NRC).
So you weren't violently opposed to NATO, you were fine with it, you just didn't want to meet NATO's standards for admission, starting with open, free and fair elections.
Oh, yeah! Not just every two-bit tin-horn Hitler-wannabe dictator gets to join NATO, no!
You have to be genuinely good people, and if you're not already, then first you have to clean up your act, and, of course, Vlad the Invader is not going to clean up anything, are you?

Bobby boy, whatever you learned from Russians is lies and nonsense, in that they're worse even than our own Democrats.
In fact, Vlad the Invader is simply empire building and therefore he must be defeated, or the world, not just Ukraine, will become a much, much worse place.

[BobL]

Tough shit, it’s GAME OVER for you guys in Ukraine, and Russia wins.

Better luck next time!

[BroJoeK]

"Tough shit, it’s GAME OVER for you guys in Ukraine, and Russia wins.
Better luck next time!"

Vlad! You're a dead man. You're a walking corpse.
Go jump in your grave so somebody can bury you and your sorry--as*ed Russian Empire.