Posted on 09/02/2021 6:43:49 AM PDT by Recovering_Democrat
I was more talking to Mercy than you but nonetheless I think we’ve gone as far as we can go.
Cut the lawn, it’s good exercise unless you have a ride around mower.
Thanks. Your post makes sense.
I honestly don’t know.
“The kid was required to STOP when they asked him to and he did not.”
Nonsense. You are not required to obey an unlawful order by police.
You do not know the law. I supplied a link to a legal page. Check it out.
“He DID have to stop when ordered.”
Per your own link, he did not:
“the person can always refuse to provide information or say no to the search and walk away”
Free to walk away, that means you don’t have to stop if the police have no probable cause, and if they order you to stop, the order is unlawful and needn’t be obeyed.
“But they did have a reason to be suspicious.”
A “reason to be suspicious” is not the same as reasonable suspicion that a person committed a crime, which is what is required for probable cause.
“After that you may talk to him or not...that is the law.”
That’s not the law. You are only required to obey orders from police that are LAWFUL. If a policeman orders you to jump off a bridge, you are not required to obey, neither are you required to interact with a police officer that has no probable cause to detain you.
Just ask Ashley Babbitt, right?
You’re simply wrong and not understanding the info at the link.
First of all “walking away” is different then not stopping to begin with. The cops were responding to a 911 call of a suspicious man. They were duty bound to respond and did so.
A police officer can stop anyone any time if he has a reasonable suspicion. This part was fulfilled by the reported 911 call of a “suspicious man” (Hello?). You are correct the man did not have to say one word to the police but what he cannot do is ignore them and the police were within the law given the 911 call.
Not the same at all.
If the Police were right. Why are they and the para medics facing charges? Mr. Jailhouse Lawyer?
LOL,are you serious?
You think they are facing charges because they asked the kid to stop and that was illegal?
Put down the bong.
No, I don’t. It was what they did after that, that got them in trouble.
Why? She broke the law. She paid the price. Cops are always right. Right?
A few more articles for comparison:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/elijah-mcclain-colorado-officers-paramedics-indicted
https://coloradosun.com/2021/09/01/elijah-mcclain-grand-jury-result-officers-paramedics-indicted/
“You’re simply wrong and not understanding the info at the link”
No, I’m really not.
“First of all “walking away” is different then not stopping to begin with.”
No it is not, when the police have no legal right to detain you, which they did not. You’re relying on your link’s mention of “Terry stops” to justify thinking the police actually can legally order anyone to stop at any time, but you don’t seem to have actually read the article that you are linking, since Terry stops require reasonable suspicion that someone has engaged in criminal behavior (this is just a different way of saying PROBABLE CAUSE). Since they had no probable cause, they could not lawfully make a Terry stop, and absent any other cause to stop him, he was not required to obey any of their unlawful orders.
“They were duty bound to respond and did so.”
Sure, they were required to respond, and they did, and their duty was fulfilled as soon as they attempted to speak to him and he refused. That was the end of their legal duties AND their legally allowed behavior. Everything after that was unlawful behavior by the police, since they had NO PROBABLE CAUSE to detain him.
It may work that way on “Emergency!” and in some jurisdictions, but not where I worked.
I forget the saying that my 20-something son says. Something like “Even though you have the freedom to do something doesn’t mean it’s always the right thing to do.” (It isn’t that, it is much shorter and clever.)
BUT - even though we have the freedom to walk away from a cop’s unlawful order to “stop” - for me it probably would never be the right thing to do to ignore that order.
I would probably also show him I.D. if requested even if I didn’t need to. Although that just in itself might be setting me up. Lets say they ask if they can have I.D. and search your bags. Does showing them your I.D. in some legal way mean that you have also given up your right to privacy??
“Hey - he opened up his wallet, so we opened up his bags.”
I guess it is time to rewatch that video “Never Talk to the Police”!
I recall my mom telling of the time she and my sister were driving north from Florida after wintering down there. Sis went down to help her drive in her Cadillac. It was loaded down with mom’s stuff and my sister’s stuff (probably three suitcases for a weeks vacation prior).
They got pulled over somewhere. Cops ended up pulling everything out of the car. My mom (74) and sis (50) sitting on the side of a hot road with all of their crap laid out. I suppose they were looking for drugs. I’m guessing neither my mom or sis knew their rights. “Well of course you can search the car, we have nothing to hide!”
The paramedics were both found guilty of criminally negligent homicide.
From the article at https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/paramedics-found-guilty-death-elijah-mcclain-injected-overdose-105884981
“Prosecutors said the paramedics did not conduct basic medical checks of McClain, such as taking his pulse, before giving him the ketamine. The dose was too much for someone of his size — 140 pounds (64 kilograms), experts testified. Prosecutors say they also did not monitor McClain immediately after giving him the sedative but instead left him lying on the ground, making it harder to breathe.”
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