Free Republic
Browse · Search
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

De Blasio moves to ban natural gas hookups: 'Literally' our 'only choice is renewable energy' ^ | January 31, 2021 | Carly Ortiz-Lytle

Posted on 01/31/2021 11:17:14 PM PST by lowbridge

click here to read article

Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-94 next last
To: lowbridge

Stupid is as stupid does.

21 posted on 02/01/2021 1:26:35 AM PST by teeman8r (Armageddon won't be pretty, but it's not like it's the end of the world or something)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BipolarBob

Here is some info on who Deblasio and his family cesspool.

22 posted on 02/01/2021 1:36:58 AM PST by Cowgirl of Justice
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Nateman
You're referring to what Amory Lovins called matching the source to the end use, and it is one of a very few useful concepts he has articulated (although it is pretty much just common sense).

IIRC the GE 9HA.02 has a nameplate capacity of 825 MW with a net 64% efficiency. But that is at the busbar. There are obviously downstream and end use conversion losses.

23 posted on 02/01/2021 1:52:25 AM PST by chimera
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: JD_UTDallas

Wow. You are my new hero with that rant.

24 posted on 02/01/2021 2:13:21 AM PST by Viking2002 (The revolution won't need to be televised. It'll be on your doorstep.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: lowbridge

There is an acute need of mental health services for people who endanger the public over a cause that is as fraudulent as this one is.

25 posted on 02/01/2021 2:28:43 AM PST by DoughtyOne (The Republican Party is dead. Long live the Founders Party.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Nateman

You obviously weren’t an engineer.

Based on the higher heating value of natural gas a well designed gas turbine combined cycle plant is well above 45% not 20% and new plants are nearing 70% no method of making electric power is more efficient not even hydrogen fuel cells.

Even considering generation one NGCC plants the over all average is above 43%

I have a dual system dual zone geothermal heat pump with a coefficient of performance at 55 degrees ground source temp in heating mode of 6 that means for every kilowatt hour of electricity the system consumes it outputs 6 kilowatts of heat. The numbers work like this

Natural gas combined cycle avg efficiency to the busbar of 45% using 7340 btu / kwh higher heating value heat rate. 3% transmission losses over the HVAC network the 100km to my property including step up and step down 3 phase to single phase transformers. That one kWh at my meter needed 7340 btu + 3% more (220btu)= 7560 btu of raw natural gas. My heat pumps take that delivered one kwh and turn it via a first law reverse carnot process into 6 kWh worth of heat moving against the thermal gradient of 56 degrees to 90 degrees at the outlet air vents. 1 kwh is 3414 btu so 6 times 3414 is 20484 btu delivered to my living space from the original 7560 btu burned at the power plant. Oblivious 20484 is drastically more than 7500. Burning the same 7560 btus worth of natural gas at my location in the most modern gas furnace would only yield a 90% transfer to my living space or 6804 btus.

The math is clear

20484 is much greater than 6804 that’s verifiable physics. My system is even more efficient since all my power comes from the sun via the 15kilowatts of panels I have on my roof there is effectively no transmission losses over the 50 feet from the inverters to the heatpump units.

The only way direct firing of natural gas beats electric heating is when you compare on site combustion to electric resistance heating elements and that ancient technology is being phased out for a host of reasons. In temperate climates homes may not have cooling units but in humid hoy climates nearly every home will and that very same compressor that produces cooling produces heat on the other end of the cycle after the compressor nearly every new unit now has the 4 way valves which is all it takes to flip the condenser and evaporator locations to go from cooling to heating. Air source heat pumps of this ddesign gave COPs of 2 to 5 given the same parameters as the ground source an air source heat pump still beats direct fired gas heat.

COP 3 is 10242 btu for air source vs again 90% direct fired at 6804 using the same starting amounts of natural gas on a btu for btu basis. Since the cooling unit would be there anyways in hot climates it.makes all the sense to add in heat pump 4 way vales to the compressor evaporator chain. And nearly every manufacturer does exactly that now. Only in the far north with zero cooling yearly loads vs pure electrical resistance heating does direct fired gas make sense from a energy burned point of view. CO2 heat pumps can and do work in the far north they can extract heat from air temps down to 40 below zero while still.maintaining a COP above 2 at moderate temps of 40_50f that COP rises into the 4s

26 posted on 02/01/2021 2:37:23 AM PST by JD_UTDallas ("Veni Vidi Vici" )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: lowbridge

It doesn’t get much greener than natural gas but they left will find any excuse to dismiss it.

27 posted on 02/01/2021 2:44:46 AM PST by RC one (Lying, cheating, deceiving & manipulating are as natural to Democrats as swimming is to fish.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Viking2002

I’m a scientist now, I deal in quantifiable results, facts and mathematics. Political agenda and emotions doesn’t sway me. Technology advances and displaces existing things. Electric induction cooking is superior in all the measurable ways that matter to a professional as I pointed out as a former professional myself. I have the options of natural gas, propane and electric for my inside kitchen when I built it. I chose bluestar induction inside and Viking natural gas for the outside the outside has 100,000 btu burners which is above the ratings for 240v induction you would need 480v three phase to get those size and residential power is never 3 phase 480v so for really high power burners for Wok , tempanyaki, and 120qt crawfish boils natural gas is still the only way to get those levels of btus unless you have access to commercial industrial 3 phase power. Propane is the other choice at $3.50 a gallon which is only 91,000 btu meaning a single high btu burner is eating $4+ bucks an hour in fuel. Natural gas here in Red state Texas is 54 cents per 100,000 btu aka per therm.

28 posted on 02/01/2021 2:45:59 AM PST by JD_UTDallas ("Veni Vidi Vici" )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: RC one
It doesn’t get much greener than natural gas

Starving in a cave while trying to subsist on nuts and berries is greener.

29 posted on 02/01/2021 2:46:23 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (I'm sorry the Q thing didn't work out. We were wrong about that.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy
They voted for DeBlastard, without voter fraud.

I don't wanna hear a peep out of the entire city.

Eff em.

30 posted on 02/01/2021 2:47:43 AM PST by Lazamataz (I feel like it is 1937 Germany, and my last name is Feinberg.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy

But at least our Tesla stock will be way overvalued.

31 posted on 02/01/2021 2:58:42 AM PST by RC one (Lying, cheating, deceiving & manipulating are as natural to Democrats as swimming is to fish.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: JD_UTDallas

Chefs will always differ in their
methods to deliver the highest
quality cuisine to their patrons.
I could care less what the French
use, if you rate their preparation
superior to that of a higher end
eating establishment in the US.
Use your preferred method to
create a plate of red chili
(New Mexico style) enchiladas
and I’ll guarantee, there are those
that will taste the difference.
Cooking is a passion, not a
science. There are methods that
must be followed to achieve
the desired result. Who, in
America, uses the methods, and
equipment you describe?
It’s unfathomable one would
consider cooking a 1-1/2”
thick, perfectly marbled, ribeye in
a frying pan. Charcoal or gas
is required.
Millions of back yard grillers
can’t be wrong.
And there are those who
‘backyard’ grille who would
rival the greatest French chefs
born to date.
There are ‘high’ end restaurants
who specialize in different genre
of food prep. Not all can be
achieved via electric cooking

32 posted on 02/01/2021 3:01:58 AM PST by Lean-Right (Eat More Moose)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: RC one

I drill oil and gas wells as an operations geologist have you ever been to a drill location there is nothing green about it. We level a 4 to 12 acre area dig pits and fill them with oil based muds while venting “allowable” amounts of benzene, hydrogen sulfide and NORM gasses. NORM = naturally occurring radioactive materials usually radon and krypton gasses. While the rig burns 100 gallons a hour at times in diesel fuel running the pumps and hydraulics. Then the frac trucks show up 12 or more of them with 4000 hp frac pumps that for the next 9 to 21 days will be running at 100% power putting up a plume of black smoke that we use to find the rigs at times we give directions to a mile marker then say look to thw sky and follow the giant black plume to the rig site. Lets be honest at least. Drilling is filthy dirty business nothing green about it. Once that gas gets in the pipe, pumped via 10,000 hp ship sized diesel pumps to the Y plant where its cleaned up and then pumped again at 110 bar to the city gates only then is it “clean” burning. Let all realise how dirty getting that “clean” fuel is. I dont give a hoot for $1500+ per day pay I’ll help kill baby seals and puppies but at least I’m honest about it.

33 posted on 02/01/2021 3:02:30 AM PST by JD_UTDallas ("Veni Vidi Vici" )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: lowbridge

I wonder how he heats HIS house.

34 posted on 02/01/2021 3:08:16 AM PST by gitmo (If your theology doesn't become your biography, what good is it?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lean-Right

I just told you how the 3 top steakhouse in the country cook their dry aged beef that the average cook cannot buy for any price its reserved for those kinds of restaurants. Heck you can watch food network and they have gone into Peter Lugers and shown how they cook their $100+ steaks they ALL salamander them which is top fired broiled they DO NOT and have never used a charcoal grill. I can name probably a dozen restaurants in Austin that use French top stoves Google it if you don’t understand what that type of stove is and how it works. The two best French restaurants in Austin use those type and guess what they are electric why because you can control the heat to half a degree F with electric. Roy Flemings in downtown Austin most certainly uses induction as does Chez Nous better book a reservation they don’t do walk up seating. Technology advances that’s just how life works. Ask yourself why CIA America in the Hudson river valley has a partnership with Paris? The best cooking school in America sends their top picks to France to learn the art of cooking. The top chefs in NYC nearly 100% of them are CIA grads and nearly all of them did time in France. Read Anthony Bourdains first book it’s a tell all of how it really is in the back of house I lived it for 5 years in Austin and NYC for a summer that’s how I know Peter Luger does not grill on a grill i saw it with my own eyes in NYC singly the best 3 months of my 20s while living and working in NYC back of house.

35 posted on 02/01/2021 3:14:43 AM PST by JD_UTDallas ("Veni Vidi Vici" )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: FatherofFive

Freeze in the winter, bake in the summer. You cant produce enough electricity with 100%renewable. But that’s ok, let them live with it as long as they stay in their neck of the woods and dont come where I live, I have no plans to ever go there

36 posted on 02/01/2021 3:15:49 AM PST by southernindymom ( )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: itzmygun

37 posted on 02/01/2021 3:17:36 AM PST by mewzilla (Break out the mustard seeds. )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: mewzilla

Related. The ESCO scams are a big reason for these policies...

Pols are making money.

38 posted on 02/01/2021 3:20:04 AM PST by mewzilla (Break out the mustard seeds. )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: DennisR
Here is what I know first hand. A few years back we had a major snowstorm here which knocked out the power for over many days in most all areas of Erie county. Even those with gasoline generators ran into a problem since many of the roads were impassable for day to days depending on where you lived, and gasoline was almost impossible to find as most gas stations were closed due to the power outage.

Fortunately, a few years prior, I had installed a NG backup genny on our house. My house stayed warm, my basement didn't flood, we had hot food, and our immediate neighbors benefited as well as I shared a few circuits.

Bottom line is that relying on just one energy source, or one transmission system, is a recipe for disaster.

39 posted on 02/01/2021 3:23:26 AM PST by SirFishalot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: JD_UTDallas

Don’t forget the pulling unit that drills out the plugs the fracs put in

40 posted on 02/01/2021 3:47:50 AM PST by South Dakota (Patriotism is the new terrorism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-94 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794 is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson