Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Marriott and Blue Cross Blue Shield stop donations to the 'treason caucus' who voted to overturn the election as calls mount for Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz to quit
Daily Mail ^ | January 10, 2021 | Katelyn Caralle

Posted on 01/10/2021 11:38:07 AM PST by lowbridge

Big business began a boycott Sunday of Republican members of Congress who followed Donald Trump's demands and voted to overturn the election.

Hotel giant Marriott, the Blue Cross Blue Shield Association and Commerce Bancshare, the parent company of Commerce Bank and other community banks, all told Popular Information they were suspending donations to the group dubbed 'the treason caucus' by critics.

Ford, AT&T and Bank of America said told Popular Information they would consider lawmakers' actions when deciding on whether to donate, and CVS, Exxon Mobil, FedEx and Target said they are reviewing their political giving.  

Berkshire Hathaway said the same. Its owner, Warren Buffett, is the country's most prominent investor and any boycott by his companies would set the tone for other investors.

The moves came as the two most prominent Trump loyslists, Texas senator Ted Cruz and Missouri senator Josh Hawley, both faced new demands to quit this weekend.

The Houston Chronicle, Texas' second-largest newspaper, told Cruz in an editorial that it was time to resign, saying: 'You have blood on your hands.'

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bidenvoters; marriott
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-64 next last

1 posted on 01/10/2021 11:38:07 AM PST by lowbridge
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: lowbridge

Damn it, I’m locked int blue cross blue shield for the next year.


2 posted on 01/10/2021 11:40:08 AM PST by JoSixChip (2020: The year of unreported truths. )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lowbridge

Think how easy life is going to be with just one party.

I don’t know why we didn’t try this before!!


3 posted on 01/10/2021 11:40:25 AM PST by americas.best.days... ( Donald John Trump has pulled the sword from the stone.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lowbridge

Given the corporate ownership of both, this doesn’t surprise me.


4 posted on 01/10/2021 11:40:41 AM PST by mewzilla (Break out the mustard seeds. )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lowbridge

No one followed trump to question the election. We followed facts.


5 posted on 01/10/2021 11:41:15 AM PST by ilgipper (The mob only destroys. Never creates. )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lowbridge

Marriott and Blue Cross Blue Shield stop donations to the ‘treason caucus’ who voted to overturn the election...


And now opposition to the fraudulent election is called ‘treason’. Because, plainly, opposition to Biden is giving aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States.


6 posted on 01/10/2021 11:41:52 AM PST by hanamizu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lowbridge

Screw you and your money !

that’s what our great and wonderful !!! president Donald J Trump!!!!

says about this matter


7 posted on 01/10/2021 11:42:04 AM PST by Truthoverpower (The guv-mint you get is the Trump winning express ! Yea haw ! Trump Pence II! Save America again )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mewzilla

If the R’s had both houses these companies wouldn’t do anything. they go where the power is, and right now the Marxists are in power in all three branches.


8 posted on 01/10/2021 11:42:36 AM PST by snarkytart
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: mewzilla

https://www.bcbsm.com/index/about-us/our-company/blue-cross-blue-shield-association.html


9 posted on 01/10/2021 11:42:42 AM PST by mewzilla (Break out the mustard seeds. )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: lowbridge

No more business for Marriott from me.

MAGA


10 posted on 01/10/2021 11:44:24 AM PST by Pearfect
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lowbridge

“Ford, AT&T and Bank of America said told Popular Information they would consider lawmakers’ actions when deciding on whether to donate...”

Exactly what kind of actions are they going to consider?


11 posted on 01/10/2021 11:45:23 AM PST by Meatspace
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lowbridge

On the plus side, it’s good to see Ted Cruz step up. He strikes me as one of those guys whose lack of street smarts made his impressive intellect and book learning almost irrelevant.

Remains to be seen if he can endure the coming storm, but he’s certainly more mature than he was four years ago.


12 posted on 01/10/2021 11:47:11 AM PST by absalom01 (You should do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, and you should never wish to do less.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pearfect
that's okay these companies have gone full on fascist against republicans and conservatives where they've put their Marxist religion ahead of profits. THIS IS ALL THE GOP'S FAULT.

They never fought back against the leftists and now they're arrogant and bold. companies feel its okay to deny flights to trump supporters, and Marriott would probably kick any Trump supporters out of their businesses all in some giant “WOKE” virtual signal to the Marxist over lords.

13 posted on 01/10/2021 11:48:01 AM PST by snarkytart
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: lowbridge; All

Thanks for posting, lowbridge and all. Very interesting.


14 posted on 01/10/2021 11:49:08 AM PST by PGalt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: absalom01

I think right now it is very important friends of liberty, even if imperfect, aren’t allowed to be isolated and destroyed by the left.


15 posted on 01/10/2021 11:50:43 AM PST by teevolt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: lowbridge
Big business began a boycott Sunday of Republican members of Congress who followed Donald Trump's demands and voted to overturn the election. >>>>>>>>>>>>>

Big Business has a not so silent partner:

On Fascism:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html

16 posted on 01/10/2021 11:51:26 AM PST by Candor7 (Obama Fascism:http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lowbridge

More businesses to boycott.

The more the merrier.


17 posted on 01/10/2021 11:51:38 AM PST by hank ernade (armchair macho bravado EverTrumper)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lowbridge

There are Trillions at Stake – The Big Club and UniParty Opposition to President

Posted on January 5, 2021 by Sundance

There are a lot of masks dropping this week.  There is a great deal of new sunlight upon the professional and institutional republican politicians that hold office.  There is a great deal of information this week highlighting establishment opposition against the presidency of Donald Trump. It is valuable to understand what lies at the heart of this opposition.

CTH can get down in the weeds of each specific issue to discuss the motives and intents (we will, and do), but the big picture MUST remain at the forefront of understanding. If we lose track of the big picture, the weeds are overwhelming.

…“It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage than a new system. For the initiator has the enmity of all who would profit by the preservation of the old institution and merely lukewarm defenders in those who gain by the new ones.”

~ Niccolò Machiavelli

♦ POTUS Trump was disrupting the global order of things in order to protect and preserve the shrinking interests of the U.S. He was fighting, almost single-handed, at the threshold of the abyss. Our interests, our position, is zero-sum. His DC opposition seeks to repel and retain the status-quo. They want to return to full economic control over the U.S.

In these economic endeavors President Trump was disrupting decades of financial schemes established to use the U.S. as a host for their endeavors. President Trump was confronting multinational corporations and the global constructs of economic systems that were put in place to the detriment of the host (USA) ie YOU. There are trillions at stake; it is all about the economics; everything else is chaff and countermeasures.

Familiar faces, perhaps faces you previously thought were decent, are now revealing their alignment with larger entities that are our abusers. In an effort to awaken the victim to the cycle of self-destructive codependent behavior, allow me to cue an audio visual example from March 2018 and U.S. Senator John Thune. WATCH:

Thune Directs Questions Toward U.S. Trade Representative Lighthizer in Finance Committee Hearing

What South Dakota Senator John Thune is showcasing here is his full alignment with big multinational corporate agriculture (BIG AG). Big AG is not supporting local farmers. Big AG does not support “free and fair markets.” Big AG supports the interests of multinational corporations and multinational financial interests.

For those interests the U.S. is the host; from our perspective they are the parasite.

It is critical to think of BIG AG in the same way we already are familiar with multinational manufacturing of durable goods.

We are already familiar how China, Mexico and Southeast Asia nations exported our raw materials (ore, coking coal, rare earth minerals and recycled aluminum etc.). The raw material to manufacture goods was exported from the U.S. and then shipped back into the U.S. as durable goods for purchase.  This is the origin of the “rustbelt” collapse.

To avoid tariffs and other restrictions, some of the finished goods are trans-shipped through other ports in order to hide the originating manifest.  It is within this decades-long process where we lost the manufacturing base, and the multinational economic planners (World Trade Organization) put us on a path to being a “service driven” economy.

The road to a “service-driven economy” is paved with a great disparity between financial classes. The wealth gap is directly related to the inability of the middle-class to thrive.

Elite financial interests, including those within Washington DC, gain wealth and power, the U.S. workforce is reduced to servitude, “service”, of their affluent needs.

The destruction of the U.S. industrial and manufacturing base is EXACTLY WHY the middle class has struggled, and exactly why the wealth gap exploded in the past 30 years.

With that familiarity, did you think the multinationals would stop with only “DURABLE GOODS”?

They don’t.

They didn’t.

The exact same exfiltration and raw material exploitation has been happening, with increased speed, over the past 15 years with “CONSUMABLE GOODS“, ie food.

Raw material foodstuff is exported to China, ASEAN nations and Mexico, processed and shipped back into the U.S. as a finished product. This is the same design-flow with food as previously exploited by other economic sectors, including auto manufacturing.

Multinational corporations, BIG AG, are now invested in controlling the outputs of U.S. agricultural industry and farmers. This process is why food prices have risen exponentially in the past decade.

The free market is not determining price; there is no “supply and demand” influence within this modern agricultural dynamic. Food commodities are now a controlled market just like durable goods. The raw material (harvests writ large) are exploited by the financial interests of massive multinational corporations, known collectively as BIG AG.

Again, if we were to pull out of these export arrangements our domestic food bill would drop 25% (or more) within the first year. Further, if U.S. supply and demand were part of the domestic market price for food, we would see the prices of aggregate food products drop by half almost immediately. Some perishable food products would predictably drop so dramatically in price it is unfathomable how far the prices would fall.

Behind this dynamic we find the international corporate and financial interests who are inherently at risk from President Trump’s “America-First” economic and trade platform. Believe it or not, President Trump is up against an entire world economic establishment.

When we understand how trade works in the modern era we understand why the agents within the system are so adamantly opposed to U.S. President Trump.

♦ The biggest lie in modern economics, willingly spread and maintained by corporate media, is that a system of global markets still exists.

It doesn’t.

Every element of global economic trade is controlled and exploited by massive institutions, multinational banks and multinational corporations. Institutions like the World Trade Organization (WTO) and World Bank control trillions of dollars in economic activity.

Underneath that economic activity there are people who hold the reigns of power over the outcomes. These individuals and groups are the stakeholders in direct opposition to principles of America-First national economics.  Collectively known as “The Big Club”.

The modern financial constructs of these entities have been established over the course of the past three decades. When you understand how they manipulate the economic system of individual nations you begin to understand understand why they are so fundamentally opposed to President Trump.

In the Western World, separate from communist control perspectives (ie. China), “Global markets” are a modern myth; nothing more than a talking point meant to keep people satiated with sound bites they might find familiar. Global markets have been destroyed over the past three decades by multinational corporations who control the products formerly contained within global markets.

The same is true for “Commodities Markets”. The multinational trade and economic system, run by corporations and multinational banks, now controls the product outputs of independent nations. The free market economic system has been usurped by entities who create what is best described as ‘controlled markets’.

U.S. President Trump understood what had taken place.  He used economic leverage as part of a broader national security policy; and to understand who opposes President Trump specifically because of the economic leverage he creates, it becomes important to understand the objectives of the global and financial elite who run and operate the institutions. The Big Club.

Understanding how trillions of trade dollars influence geopolitical policy we begin to understand the three-decade global financial construct they seek to retain and protect.

That is, global financial exploitation of national markets.

FOUR BASIC ELEMENTS:

♦ Multinational corporations purchase controlling interests in various national outputs (harvests an raw materials), and ancillary industries, of developed industrial western nations. {example}

♦ The Multinational Corporations making the purchases are underwritten by massive global financial institutions, multinational banks. (*note* in China it is the communist government underwriting the purchase)

♦ The Multinational Banks and the Multinational Corporations then utilize lobbying interests to manipulate the internal political policy of the targeted nation state(s).

♦ With control over the targeted national industry or interest, the multinationals then leverage export of the national asset (exfiltration) through trade agreements structured to the benefit of lesser developed nation states – where they have previously established a proactive financial footprint.

Against the backdrop of President Trump confronting China; and against the backdrop of NAFTA renegotiated; and against the necessary need to support the key U.S. steel and aluminum industries; revisiting the economic influences within the modern import/export dynamic will help conceptualize the issues at the heart of the matter.

There are a myriad of interests within each trade sector that make specific explanation very challenging; however, here’s the basic outline.

For three decades economic “globalism” has advanced, quickly. Everyone accepts this statement, yet few actually stop to ask who and what are behind this – and why?

Influential people with vested financial interests in the process have sold a narrative that global manufacturing, global sourcing, and global production was the inherent way of the future. The same voices claimed the American economy was consigned to become a “service-driven economy.”

What was always missed in these discussions is that advocates selling this global-economy message have a vested financial and ideological interest in convincing the information consumer it is all just a natural outcome of economic progress.

It’s not.

It’s not natural at all. It is a process that is entirely controlled, promoted and utilized by large conglomerates, lobbyists, purchased politicians and massive financial corporations.

Again, I’ll try to retain the larger altitude perspective without falling into the traps of the esoteric weeds. I freely admit this is tough to explain and I may not be successful.

Bulletpoint #1: 

♦ Multinational corporations purchase controlling interests in various national elements of developed industrial western nations.

This is perhaps the most challenging to understand. In essence, thanks specifically to the way the World Trade Organization (WTO) was established in 1995, national companies expanded their influence into multiple nations, across a myriad of industries and economic sectors (energy, agriculture, raw earth minerals, etc.). This is the basic underpinning of national companies becoming multinational corporations.

Think of these multinational corporations as global entities now powerful enough to reach into multiple nations -simultaneously- and purchase controlling interests in a single economic commodity.

A historic reference point might be the original multinational enterprise, energy via oil production. (Exxon, Mobil, BP, etc.)

However, in the modern global world, it’s not just oil; the resource and product procurement extends to virtually every possible commodity and industry. From the very visible (wheat/corn) to the obscure (small minerals, and even flowers).

Bulletpoint #2

♦ The Multinational Corporations making the purchases are underwritten by massive global financial institutions, multinational banks.

During the past several decades national companies merged. The largest lemon producer company in Brazil, merges with the largest lemon company in Mexico, merges with the largest lemon company in Argentina, merges with the largest lemon company in the U.S., etc. etc. National companies, formerly of one nation, become “continental” companies with control over an entire continent of nations.

…. or it could be over several continents or even the entire world market of Lemon/Widget production. These are now multinational corporations. They hold interests in specific segments (this example lemons) across a broad variety of individual nations.

National laws on Monopoly building are not the same in all nations. Most are not as structured as the U.S.A or other more developed nations (with more laws). During the acquisition phase, when encountering a highly developed nation with monopoly laws, the process of an umbrella corporation might be needed to purchase the targeted interests within a specific nation. The example of Monsanto applies here.

Bulletpoint #3

 The Multinational Banks and the Multinational Corporations then utilize lobbying interests to manipulate the internal political policy of the targeted nation state(s).

With control of the majority of actual lemons the multinational corporation now holds a different set of financial values than a local farmer or national market. This is why commodities exchanges are essentially dead.

In the aggregate the mercantile exchange is no longer a free or supply-based market; it is now a controlled market exploited by mega-sized multinational corporations.

Instead of the traditional ‘supply/demand’ equation determining prices, the corporations look to see what nations can afford what prices. The supply of the controlled product is then distributed to the country according to their ability to afford the price. This is essentially the bastardized and politicized function of the World Trade Organization (WTO). This is also how the corporations controlling WTO policy maximize profits.

Back to the lemons. A multinational corporation might hold the rights to the majority of the lemon production in Brazil, Argentina and California/Florida. The price the U.S. consumer pays for the lemons is directed by the amount of inventory (distribution) the controlling corporation allows in the U.S.

If the U.S. lemon harvest is abundant, the controlling interests will export the product to keep the U.S. consumer spending at peak or optimal price. A U.S. customer might pay $2 for a lemon, a Mexican customer might pay .50¢, and a Canadian $1.25.

The bottom line issue is the national supply (in this example ‘harvest/yield’) is not driving the national price because the supply is now controlled by massive multinational corporations.

The mistake people often make is calling this a “global commodity” process. In the modern era this “global commodity” phrase is particularly nonsense.

A true global commodity is a process of individual nations harvesting/creating a similar product and bringing that product to a global market. Individual nations each independently engaged in creating a similar product.

Under modern globalism this process no longer takes place. It’s a complete fraud. Massive multinational corporations control the majority of production inside each nation and therefore control the global product market and price. It is a controlled system.

EXAMPLE: Part of the lobbying in the food industry is to advocate for the expansion of U.S. taxpayer benefits to underwrite the costs of the domestic food products they control. By lobbying DC these multinational corporations get congress and policy-makers to expand the basis of who can use Food Stamps, EBT and SNAP benefits (state reimbursement rates).

Expanding the federal subsidy for food purchases is part of the corporate profit dynamic.

With increased taxpayer subsidies, the food price controllers can charge more domestically and export more of the product internationally. Taxes, via subsidies, go into their profit margins. The corporations then use a portion of those enhanced profits in contributions to the politicians. It’s a circle of money.

In highly developed nations this multinational corporate process requires the corporation to purchase the domestic political process (as above) with individual nations allowing the exploitation in varying degrees. As such, the corporate lobbyists pay hundreds of millions to politicians for changes in policies and regulations; one sector, one product, or one industry at a time. These are specialized lobbyists.

It is ironic when we discuss corporate financial payments to government officials in foreign countries we call them corrupt.  However, in the United States we call it lobbying, the process is exactly the same.

EXAMPLE: The Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS)

CFIUS is an inter-agency committee authorized to review transactions that could result in control of a U.S. business by a foreign person (“covered transactions”), in order to determine the effect of such transactions on the national security of the United States.

CFIUS operates pursuant to section 721 of the Defense Production Act of 1950, as amended by the Foreign Investment and National Security Act of 2007 (FINSA) (section 721) and as implemented by Executive Order 11858, as amended, and regulations at 31 C.F.R. Part 800.

The CFIUS process has been the subject of significant reforms over the past several years. These include numerous improvements in internal CFIUS procedures, enactment of FINSA in July 2007, amendment of Executive Order 11858 in January 2008, revision of the CFIUS regulations in November 2008, and publication of guidance on CFIUS’s national security considerations in December 2008 (more)

Bulletpoint #4 

♦ With control over the targeted national industry or interest, the multinationals then leverage export of the national asset (exfiltration) through trade agreements structured to the benefit of lesser developed nation states – where they have previously established a proactive financial footprint.

The process of charging the U.S. consumer more for a product, that under normal national market conditions would cost less, is a process called exfiltration of wealth. This is the basic premise, the cornerstone, behind the catch-phrase ‘globalism’.

It is never discussed.

To control the market price some contracted product may even be secured and shipped with the intent to allow it to sit idle (or rot). It’s all about controlling the price and maximizing the profit equation. To gain the same $1 profit a widget multinational might have to sell 20 widgets in El-Salvador (.25¢ each), or two widgets in the U.S. ($2.50/each).

Think of the process like the historic reference of OPEC (Oil Producing Economic Countries). Only in the modern era massive corporations are playing the role of OPEC and it’s not oil being controlled, thanks to the WTO it’s almost everything.

Again, this is highlighted in the example of taxpayers subsidizing the food sector (EBT, SNAP etc.), the corporations can charge U.S. consumers more. Ex. more beef is exported, red meat prices remain high at the grocery store, but subsidized U.S. consumers can better afford the high prices.

Of course, if you are not receiving food payment assistance (middle-class) you can’t eat the steaks because you can’t afford them. (Not accidentally, it’s the same scheme in the ObamaCare healthcare system)

Agriculturally, multinational corporate Monsanto says: ‘all your harvests are belong to us‘. Contract with us, or you lose because we can control the market price of your end product. Downside is that once you sign that contract, you agree to terms that are entirely created by the financial interests of the larger corporation; not your farm.

The multinational agriculture lobby is massive. We willingly feed the world as part of the system; but you as a grocery customer pay more per unit at the grocery store because domestic supply no longer determines domestic price.

Within the agriculture community the (feed-the-world) production export factor also drives the need for labor. Labor is a cost. The multinational corps have a vested interest in low labor costs. Ergo, open border policies. (ie. willingly purchased republicans not supporting border wall etc.).

This corrupt economic manipulation/exploitation applies over multiple sectors, and even in the sub-sector of an industry like steel. China/India purchases the raw material, coking coal, then sells the finished good (rolled steel) back to the global market at a discount. Or it could be rubber, or concrete, or plastic, or frozen chicken parts etc.

The ‘America First’ Trump-Trade Doctrine upset the entire construct of this multinational export/control dynamic. Team Trump focused exclusively on bilateral trade deals, with specific trade agreements targeted toward individual nations (not national corporations).

‘America-First’ is also specific policy at a granular product level looking out for the national interests of the United States, U.S. workers, U.S. companies and U.S. consumers.

Under President Trump’s Trade positions, balanced and fair trade with strong regulatory control over national assets, exfiltration of U.S. national wealth is essentially stopped.

This puts many current multinational corporations, globalists who previously took a stake-hold in the U.S. economy with intention to export the wealth, in a position of holding contracted interest of an asset they can no longer exploit.

Perhaps now we understand better how massive multi-billion multinational corporations, and the political institutions they pay for, are aligned against President Trump.

Example Below:

…”unless substantial, new evidence is presented during the challenges to each state’s ballots, I will not object to the certification of that state’s election results based on unproven allegations.

Members of Congress are entitled to vote any way they wish and are accountable to their constituents for that vote, but a vote not to certify the electoral votes of a state based on an emergency audit that is designed to fail is not a vote on the merits. It is not a vote based on evidence.

To state the obvious, I – along with millions of Texans – hoped President Trump would be elected to a second term. I had high hopes for everything we could accomplish under President Trump’s leadership over the next four years, and to say the least, I am disappointed by the election results.

Any one person’s disappointment, however, cannot and should not override the legitimate votes of millions of Americans and our duty to uphold the Constitution and laws of the United States. Doing so would be a violation of my oath, do irreparable harm to our great democracy, and set a dangerous precedent for future elections.”

~ John Cornyn

RELATED:


18 posted on 01/10/2021 11:54:00 AM PST by Bratch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lowbridge

Guess I just have to boycott everyone.


19 posted on 01/10/2021 11:54:45 AM PST by Lurkinanloomin (Natural Born Citizens Are Born Here of Citizen Parents|Know Islam, No Peace - No Islam, Know Peace)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lowbridge

Dumped my Marriot account. I don’t work with anti-American, anti-free speech companies unless I have to.


20 posted on 01/10/2021 11:54:59 AM PST by cp124 (They can live in there own fake reality and I will live in mine.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-64 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson