The Rooftop Solar Scam and How to Get Rid of It

Are you crazy or just ignorant. I have a 15kw system on my roof in North Texas it cost me ZERO dollars installed with grid tie and inverters. I have NEVER usee a net kwhr of grid power in the 5 years it has been up. My system in August with the AC set at 70 day and 68 at night still out produced my gross monthly usage. Texas net meters but only at the offset rate as in they pay you for the fuel costs and generation costs you offset and not the distribution which is Oncor a wholly separate entity from the power producer’s which are deregulated and cooperative. During the winter’s in sunny DFW we get over 300 days a year of sunshine my system puts well over 2000 kwhr a month to the grid at 3.7c per kwh the retail offset rate. Oncor charges the consumer of said kwhr their licenced 3.4c distribution charge. Should I ever use more net kwhr in a month then the energy cost is what u banked but oncor will still charge you the distribution fee there is no free solar lunch in Texas every pays for distribution it’s only the source of power and since it’s bid on in real time and during the days solar has legal priority solar set the basement rates in the day times. My panels cost not to me but the installers 35 cents a watt by the pallet and the two 8000 watt inverters were 50 cents a watt the whole system installed and grid tied was right at a dollar a watt. I chose to allow the installers to contract for the gross power I sell back to the grid every month they keep the profits I’m renting them roof space on my huge home with Prime south facing roof lines. In exchange I pay only for what kwhr I use to the solar company at 3 cents a kwhr for a 25 year contract. I quit trying to save power that rate is so cheap I run my AC at will and leave lights on everywhere 24/7. Even with zero efforts to save power my system still banks some times 2000+ kwhr a month we get that much sun here.

In Texas with deregulated power the grid operator pays solar the offset rate which is exactly the current average LCOE when the kwhr was banked. Meaning that the bank rate is offset cost of not generating that kwhr to include the fuel cost saved but also operating and maintenance and capital costs the Levelized Cost Of Electricity or LCOE is the all in cost. It’s the only fair way in a deregulated industry to account for incoming solar power. The power distribution network is owned by a licenced separate entity in Texas called oncor they only distribute power and charge a rate currently 3.4c per kwhr regardless of where it came from this charge is ALWAYS payed by the consumer of the power not the generator.

My grid 15is system has two inverters both can operate in stand alone mode all I have to do is flip my 200 amp main grid breaker and the system automatically senses the drop out of the 60 Hz line signal and goes into stand alone mode. When it was installed I had an existing Genrac backup genny with an automatic grid disconnect breaker so my 200 amp main is tripable by remote and if the sun is shining the panels power my house 100 % grid free, at night or in the clouds the genrac kicks on its a 10la unit and easily runs my dual AC and electric stove ovens and everything else never once have I not had power when the grid is down and in rural North Texas after an ice storm that can be weeks long. Not this guy I will always have power as long as their is sun during the day and my genrac is dual fuel I’m gas grid tied and I have the older 500 gal propane from before they ran a gas line down my street. The propane is back up to the back up should the gas grid go down I have 500 gal of reserve energy. My tankless water heater is also dual fuel as is the furnace just got to adjust the Jets on each a 5 min job and open two valves shut two others easy peasy.

I’m the land owner, the solar power company is leasing valuable roof space from me the owner of that real estate. In exchange for a 25 year contract and ground lease they get to sell power to the grid and to me at a fixed rate of 3c per kwhr I don’t know or care what they charge the grid which in Texas is regulated by ERCOT and bid on in real time via smart meters and smart inverters. In Texas EVERY power producer bids to sell power to the retail power sellers who then transport that power via Oncors distribution network. It’s a three tier system the power producer’s sell whole sale power to licenced deregulated retail power providers who then transport that power to their consumers via Oncor network. Power producer’s cannot by law sell directly to the consumer most have their own retail seller branch but they must also compete on a level field with all the other sellers. My solar power company that is leasing my land from me is a power producer they sell at what ever rate they bid for in real time. For what I actually us every month I’m in contact with them for a all in cost of 3 cents per kwhr which is one 5th the prime retail rates and half the off peak rates. Like I said I don’t even bother to try to save power any more my house is shivering cold all summer long couldn’t be happier.

Are you crazy or just ignorant...

While I am ignorant of your experiences and situation but more familiar with my own experiences and situation.

We ended up saving money with our system in California because of the very high electricity costs there. We had a guaranteed rate and sold power back to the grid and all.

But it also cost us when we moved, as the installers had caused roof damage to the tiles, which caused some water damage from weather that ended up causing a mold problem that the inspector found in our house. We paid a hefty sum to get it all repaired.

Also many home buyers looked over our house because they just didn't want to figure out the deal on the solar, which was fairly good deal there (other than the roof damage nightmare).

Now we are in a big house in Texas where electricity rates are dirt cheap compared to California. We may move after a few years, we are not sure, so don't want to get locked into a contract that makes it hard to sell the house. We are afraid of roof damage that we don't know about until years later again. And we don't particularly want to buy it outright with the large costs.

Also solar panels are getting better every year--but once you get them you are locked into the level of technology they are at at the time you buy. Makes sense for us to hold off in my opinion for our situation and just pay the relatively low electric costs.

When it starts to make sense for us, I may go for it again.

Deregulated means the power monopolies were broken up, before you only had one choice at your location for power company and they could charge you whatever they wanted. Texas voters rebelled and forced the state to pass a law allowing competition in power providers. The state broke up the system into four parts. ERCOT the energy reliability Council of Texas is the agency that licences and regulates the power grid and is responsible for setting the fixed tariffs and profit margins of the only monopoly left the first tier under Oncor who builds and maintains the power distribution network from the power producer’s to the consumer. ONCOR is allowed to charge a fixed rate for any flow of electrons to and from their system. The second tier is power producer’s such as the largest T
XU they own power plants and produce for WHOLE SALE every that is up for bid on the ERCOT real-time power exchange. The third tier is licenced retail power providers which the customer sees as the “power company” they produce no actual energy they must purchase it in real time 15min blocks from Ercots exchange via bidding as well. Once power has been negotiated it is dispatched via ONCOR
Grid system to the customer. One every power bill there is always two charges what the customer payed to their retail provider and what was paid to ONCOR to deliver it they wholesale costs are dealt with by your licenced retail provider. Currently ONCOR gets 3.4c per kWh and the avg retail power rate is 7 cents for a total cost of 10.4c

No one is subsidizing solar in Texas the grid maintenance expanses are paid via ONCORs allowed charges for being the distribution provider and their costs fees and profits are regulated by ERCOT which is subject to public review abd votes. The power producer’s now have to complete to sell their power on the open market in real time that includes any solar power producer’s. Who via smart meters and smart inverters know in real time what their distributed energy source is putting into the available power pool on ONCOR grid. They sell at what the current market conditions will bear at that 15min interval nothing more nothing less. The only concession solar and wind get is if there is an oversupply in the market at any given epoch they are the last to be forced to curtail generation. This means if supply by power producer’s exceeds demand then coal and gas must curtail generation first before wind then solar then nuclear curtailment on that order. My solar company competes with everyone else in real time when my panels are producing more than I am using. I don’t bank power from them I have a contract from their retail power group that I get 3c per kWh of every unit I use regardless of if it’s from my panels or not. They installed such a large system they knew 99% of the time it would be sending power out to the power bid pool and they could sell it at market prices not at 3 cents to me. The 3 cents to me is my incentive to lease them my property rights it’s a fair exchange I get a power bill that’s one third what it was , never have to conserve power again and they do all the maintenance, cleaning twice a year of the panels and if the grid goes down they put in stand alone mode inverters as a bonus for me and all that power off grid is still only 3 cents per kwhr. It’s win win for both in this contact I couldn’t be more pleased

“Deregulated means the power monopolies were broken up”

Wow! Thanks for the informative reply. A complicated situation but it makes sense.

” The only concession solar and wind get is if there is an oversupply in the market at any given epoch they are the last to be forced to curtail generation.”

That must mean you solar producers never have to curtail.

Sounds like you have a good deal assuming you can produce power for less than 3 cents per kwh. Guess you can if they pay for the maintenance of your equipment.

They payed for the whole system, and the maintenance and replacements if needed. They are selling power from my rooftop to the grid at peak rates of well over $80_120 a megawatt hour during peak times. In exchange for leasing them my real estate I have access to power at a fixed negotiated rate of 3c per kWh as much as I want to use at any point 24/7/365. It’s a business deal a contract between a land owner and a leasee for real estate, but in this case the monetary pay out is a power concession. It’s win win for both parties. They installed such a large system that it always produces high value power to be sold at peak rates. The amount I use is irrelevant to them as their retail provider is in contract to provide me power at 3c 24/7/365 with no peak rates so they likely just contracted a fixed rate from another producer to provide my concession. It makes perfect sense they sell power to the pool at 8c to 12c and contract a long term steady customer at 3c in exchange for 3500 sqft of prime southern real estate and most importantly twin 200 amp 240V grid tied with that real estate giving them access to ERCOTs power bid pool.

And no solar almost never curtials and never first by law passed by the people of Texas via our duly elected officials. NGas curtails first, then coal, then wind, then nuclear. Solar only curtails to save the grid from overload same with wind. There have been times in Texas where on a windy night the grid was 100% wind power plus the base load of nukes which can’t be turned off and on very easily due to the xenon fission products. At that time the ERCOT power bid went negative as in ERCOT was paying large consumers with dispatchable demand to take power from the grid temporarily to prevent over voltage. For half an hour or so until the wind turbines could be feathered that’s two bidding periods the minimum it takes to negative bid out producer’s and spin down generation. Only wind and gas can spin down in minutes coal,nukes and biomass have to shunt steam to the condensers at full pressure until the boilers ramp down or the core in a nuke plant. The xenon in a nuke core means that if you throttle down you cannot throttle back up for hours and hours until the now excess xenon decays to the lower equilibrium level. It’s a neutron poison. Some reactors like French PWRs have either enriched booster rods or since they reprocess nuke wastes they have MOX with PU239 in half the core which has a Kef well above 1 that can over come the xenon poison effect. French PWRs can and do load follow. The plants at Comanche peak have booster rods and can ramp from 100% down to 40% and back up in over a few HOURS the South Texas NPP do not have booster rods and they do not ramp they have to shunt steam at full power to the cooling lagoon it’s very expensive to do that from an O&M on the condenser strain dumping 6 gigawatts thermal into the condensers at full pressure is almost always a last resort.

In case people didn’t realise already I’m in the energy industry. I do a variety of consulting with my various LLCs

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