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How to Remove an Incapacitated President With the 25th Amendment [BARF]
Lifehacker ^ | October 28, 2020 | Beth Skwarecki

Posted on 10/10/2020 2:38:53 AM PDT by Jyotishi

The US Constitution provides instructions for how to remove a President from office if they are unfit to do their job -- gravely wounded, for example, or mentally unstable. The process could also be used if the President is incapacitated, for example if they were sedated and on a ventilator.

The instructions were ratified as an amendment in 1967, after John F. Kennedy’s assassination. Until that point, the Constitution just vaguely referred

http://constitutionus.com/

to the fact that a President could be removed for “Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of said Office.”

When can the 25th amendment be invoked for an unfit president?

The answer: whenever the Vice President and a majority of the Cabinet are ready to do so. One anonymous “senior official” wrote in a 2018 New York Times opinion piece

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html

that Cabinet members were afraid of “precipitat[ing] a constitutional crisis” by invoking the amendment, and instead chose to lie to the President and disobey him instead.

But invoking the 25th amendment would not be a constitutional crisis,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_crisis

a problem in government that the Constitution cannot solve. Rather, the 25th amendment is a part of the constitution that gives explicit instructions for how to remove a President who is unfit to serve.

It does not say when a President is unfit to serve, though. It doesn’t call out specific illnesses or suggest tests of any sort.

https://vitals.lifehacker.com/the-montreal-cognitive-assessment-doesnt-prove-or-dispr-1822137490

It just says this, under section 4:

"Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President."

So if this were to play out today, the Vice President (Mike Pence) and a majority of the cabinet (these folks)

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-trump-administration/the-cabinet

would have to tell the Speaker (Nancy Pelosi) and the president pro tempore of the Senate (Chuck Grassley) that they think the President (Donald Trump) should be removed. As soon as the message was delivered, Pence would be President.

But there is another possibility: that “such other body.” Under the 25th amendment, Congress could pass a law creating a commission to evaluate whether the President is able to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Nancy Pelosi proposed today

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/08/politics/house-oversight-commission-president-health/index.html

that such a commission be formed. (It’s being dismissed by some as a troll move since it’s unlikely to be passed, but one could argue this is a sensible measure during a pandemic.)

This commission’s decision does not replace Congress’s final verdict, but rather the Veep’s and cabinet’s letter. That means this body can be used to get the ball rolling and force Congress to convene and vote.

What happens next?

At this point, the President can get their powers back just by saying that they are now able to carry out the duties of the office. This is pretty straightforward if power was temporarily transferred from the President being sick or having surgery. But what if the President says they’re fine, and they’re not? The rest of section 4 of the amendment sets out a timeline:

o Within four days of the president saying they want their powers back, the Vice President and the majority of the cabinet can declare that they still believe the President is unfit.

o Congress must convene within 48 hours, if it is not already in session.

o Congress then has 21 days to decide who to believe. To remove the President from office, both houses must vote, by a two-thirds majority, that the President is unable to discharge the duties of the office. If they can’t reach a decision within 21 days, the power goes back to the President.

If the President is removed, the Vice President takes over as President, and can appoint a new Vice President.

Will this actually ever happen?

So far, it never has. The process of removing a President was designed to be difficult so that parties would not be able to pick off each other’s officials willy-nilly. Perhaps the amendment has made it too difficult, and arguably choosing not to invoke the amendment for an unfit President would be the real constitutional crisis.

This article was originally published in September 2018 and was updated in October 2020 in the context of President Trump’s COVID-19 diagnosis.

Beth Skwarecki

Posts: https://lifehacker.com/author/bethskw

Email: elizabeth.skwarecki@lifehacker.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/bethskw

Beth is Lifehacker's Senior Health Editor. She has written about health and science for over a decade, including two books: Outbreak! and Genetics 101. Her Wilks score is 302.


TOPICS: Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 25th; 25thamendment; amendment; congress; constitution; covid; covid19; health; pandemic; pelosi; pence; president; trump; vicepresident

1 posted on 10/10/2020 2:38:53 AM PDT by Jyotishi
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To: Jyotishi

Banana Republic BS

Yet another “Get Trump” stunt by Rat nutcase Mafia freak Pelosi

Not needed for 230 years

Dont need now


2 posted on 10/10/2020 2:56:04 AM PDT by Regulator
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To: Jyotishi

Even though it was created forty years after the fact, it is perfectly built for a President Wilson-type situation. Because of the two-thirds majority in both the House and Senate...the odds are heavily in favor of it never being used, unless a Wilson-type scenario were to occur again.


3 posted on 10/10/2020 3:17:54 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: Jyotishi

Even though it was created forty years after the fact, it is perfectly built for a President Wilson-type situation. Because of the two-thirds majority in both the House and Senate...the odds are heavily in favor of it never being used, unless a Wilson-type scenario were to occur again.


4 posted on 10/10/2020 3:17:55 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: Jyotishi

slight error in the article. The article suggests that the Congress created group of people replaces the VP and cabinet, but a careful reading of the amendment makes clear it only replaces the cabinet. The VP is always involved in the removal decision. So theoretically if Kamala does not go along with the group whatever the overwhelming vote is, Joe does not get removed. Of course she probably wants to go along.


5 posted on 10/10/2020 3:28:12 AM PDT by ChronicMA
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To: Regulator

She said this is not for trump, I believe it has two purposes to remove biden and anoint camel hair a## if they should ever get in and to remove trump when he gets reelected


6 posted on 10/10/2020 3:42:01 AM PDT by ronnie raygun ( Massive mistakes are made by arrogant fools; massive evils are committed by evil people.")
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To: Jyotishi

As has been pointed out by some, Biden is the target, they are just practicing now.


7 posted on 10/10/2020 3:43:54 AM PDT by tinyowl (A is A)
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To: Jyotishi

If we had honest men and women of character who cared more for the country than their riches and power, it would be used when needed. Probably rarely if ever.

This is something that should have been discussed seriously in the debates. Instead, Kamala talked about getting the nod from Joe, and thinking of her mama, and her skin color. Our country is doomed in the end, if something does not dramatically change. Even if Trump wins, that is fours at most. Then back to the Rats...


8 posted on 10/10/2020 4:16:15 AM PDT by PghBaldy (12/14 - 930am -rampage begins... 12/15 - 1030am - Obama's advance team scouts photo-op locations.)
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To: Jyotishi
I saw last night a brief review of what happens when Congress tries to apply the 25th Amendment.I wasn't paying close attention but I think I heard "when Congress invokes the 25th Amendment with a particular President that President can file a response saying "no,I am fit to fulfill my duties as President". Once such a notice is issued by the President it takes a two-thirds majority vote by both the House *and* the Senate to remove him".

If this is an accurate description that means that President Plugs would have to willing go down.

There obviously can be no doubt that Bella Pelosi has just revealed their "Grand Plan" in dealing with the President Plugs dilemma.

9 posted on 10/10/2020 4:52:20 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Thanks To Biden Voters Oregon's Now A Battleground State)
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To: ChronicMA

One of the replies to her:

LOL - the entire article is based on a faulty premise. The language of the 25th Amendment does not say that it’s EITHER “the vice-president and a majority of the principal officers of the executive departments” OR “such other body as Congress may by law provide.”

Instead, it says that it’s (1) the vice-president, and (2) EITHER “a majority of the principal officers of the executive departments” OR “such other body as Congress may by law provide.”

Your faulty understanding of that phrase leads to this complete, utter nonsense: “This commission’s decision does not replace Congress’s final verdict, but rather the Veep’s and cabinet’s letter.” That is simply NOT TRUE - the Vice-President’s participation is a required part of the 25th Amendment process.

If you don’t understand the difference in wording, you shouldn’t be a journalist and try to explain it to everyone else.


10 posted on 10/10/2020 5:00:30 AM PDT by RightFighter (This space for rent)
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To: RightFighter

And who would want a process where the VP has plausible deniability?

“I didn’t want to be acting president, but this group of officials thrust the job upon me.”

No, the constitution requires the VP to proactively and personally take the office so that he has full responsibility for doing so, making it unlikely that it will be done unless it is clear to all that it is the right thing to do.


11 posted on 10/10/2020 5:31:21 AM PDT by ChronicMA
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To: Jyotishi

They’re getting this ready for Joe Biden in case he accidently wins.


12 posted on 10/10/2020 6:16:17 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
They’re getting this ready for Joe Biden in case he accidently wins.

And that's when they'll care about Hunter.

13 posted on 10/10/2020 6:18:48 AM PDT by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: pepsionice

Even though it was created forty years after the fact, it is perfectly built for a President Wilson-type situation.


I believe the 25th was passed with three incidents in mind. Wilson’s stroke, Ike’s heart attacks, and the Kennedy assassination.

By the time of Ike’s heart attacks we were already in the cold war/atomic age. Really bad things could to the country in minutes and hours, not weeks or months.

And then there was the nightmare scenario of Kennedy. What if he’d survived the attempt, but was mentally a vegetable? He couldn’t resign, I suppose he could be impeached, but for what?

The 25th provides a means of dealing with all three scenarios. It wasn’t designed to deal with an ORANGE MAN BAD!! situation.


14 posted on 10/10/2020 8:02:29 AM PDT by hanamizu
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To: Jyotishi
Under the 25th amendment, Congress could pass a law creating a commission to evaluate whether the President is able to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Nancy Pelosi proposed today that such a commission be formed.

In light of Murkowski and Collins "feelings" as to delaying a vote on Judge Amy till after the election, how would they vote should Pelosi push this bill through the house and it came to the senate before the election? I'm sure these in kitty clothing would vote in the affirmative.

15 posted on 10/10/2020 8:28:15 AM PDT by OrioleFan (Republicans believe every day is July 4th, Democrats believe every day is April 15th.for corruptiion)
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To: Jyotishi

Now that Pelosi’s planning this, all the more reason to vote the democrats (all of them) out of office. If she wants a civil war, she’s definitely asking for one, because, in Washington DC, Trump is the only sane adult in the room.


16 posted on 10/10/2020 8:31:39 AM PDT by OrioleFan (Republicans believe every day is July 4th, Democrats believe every day is April 15th.for corruptiion)
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To: RightFighter

I also disagree about the VP being able to nominate a new VP.

It says Acting President, not President.

Presumably if the President were to be no longer disabled, he could be reinstated.


17 posted on 10/10/2020 8:34:16 AM PDT by scrabblehack
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To: scrabblehack

The president is reinstated immediately by just saying “Um, guys, I’m still here.” It then requires a 2/3 vote of BOTH HOUSES to remove him. So it’s even more difficult to do than to impeach and remove a president, because impeachment/removal requires only a majority of the House and 2/3 of the Senate.

The 25th Amendment is written the way it is to insulate it from politics, by having the President’s own VP AND Cabinet be part of the process to remove his power. Pelosi’s plan would be seen as pure politics any time the Congress and the presidency were of different parties.


18 posted on 10/10/2020 9:08:31 AM PDT by RightFighter (This space for rent)
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To: Jyotishi

Three California surgeons were playing golf one Saturday and they started to brag on their surgical accomplishments -—

The first one said “ I had a patient that cut off four fingers on a table saw and I reattached them so well he now is playing the guitar in a band!”

The second doctor said “ I had a patient who was in a bad motorcycle accident and lost his leg and arm. I reattached them and now he’s training for the Olympic gymnast team!”

The third said “ That’s pretty good, but I had a patient who was riding her horse down a railroad track and was hit by a high speed train. All they could find was the horse’s ass and her hair. I put them together and now she’s the Speaker of the House!


19 posted on 10/10/2020 12:33:21 PM PDT by Grampa Dave (The line that separated Satire, Democrats and Stupidity has vanished. (thanks to jonascord)!)
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To: RightFighter

I was quarreling with
“If the President is removed, the Vice President takes over as President, and can appoint a new Vice President.”

But the 25th Amendment says “Acting President” at the end of Section 4.

Article II Section 1 Paragraph 6 says,”such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed.”

Now with impeachment and conviction, yes the president is removed but a disability is potentially temporary - the VP is Acting President and not at liberty to appoint a new VP.


20 posted on 10/10/2020 1:32:45 PM PDT by scrabblehack
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