Kalamata:
"Our Founding Fathers created our great nation in spite of many of the so-called "Enlightenment" thinkers.
Even the heavy influence of the blasphemous Christ-mocker, Thomas Paine, was not enough to sway our framers away from establishing a Christian nation which lasted for nearly two centuries, until the corrupting influence of ACLU, Marx and Darwin finally took hold.
This is Paine mocking Christ, the Virgin Birth, and the genealogies of Matthew and Luke:..." I "get" that you don't like Paine and some European Enlightenment figures.
Unlike most Founders Paine was not popular with Americans after the war.
But during the Revolutionary War Paine not only helped explain it to Americans, he also helped negotiate millions of dollars in foreign aid from European countries.
Paine's religious views did not reflect those of any other Founders I can think of.
Kalamata: "Thankfully, the great majority of our Framers were devout Christians, or this nation would have been destroyed from within before the ink was dry on the Constitution."
Agreed.
Kalamata: "The scientific revolution began in the Renaissance with the discoveries by Christians such as Kepler, Bacon, Pascal, Boyle, Steno, Hooke, Harvey, Huygens, Copernicus, Newton, Linnaeus, Herschel, Faraday, Maxwell, Davy, Cuvier, Herschel, Dalton, Morse, Henry, Maury, Joule, Mendel, Pasteur and Kelvin. The corrupting influence of Darwin and Lyell has led to an unjust marginalization of those great scientists and their achievements."
Sorry, but your list here is a jumble of names from multiple historical periods:
- Renaissance (1400 to ~1700):
Kepler, Pascal, Boyle, Steno, Harvey, Copernicus
- Age of Enlightenment (circa 1700 to 1800)
Bacon (?), Hooke, Hugens, Newton, Linnaeus
- "Romantic" Era (1800 to 1850)
Herschel, Faraday, Davy, Cuvier, Dalton, Joule
- Victorian Era (1850 to 1900)
Morse, Henry, Maury, Mendel, Darwin, Lyell, Pasteur
- Modern Era (since 1900) Maxwell, Kelvin
Kalamata:
"Three of those -- Newton, Maxwell, and Faraday -- were Albert Einstein's heros:" Newton -- Enlightenment
Faraday -- Romantic
Maxwell -- Modern era.
Einstein -- Modern era.
Kalamata: "Who is "we"?
I am here to defend Christ, the Founding Fathers, the Constitution, and Christian traditions of western civilization, which includes exposing those who are, or have been corrupting influences against any of those four great pillars of peace and prosperity."
You are often at odds, if not at war, with traditions of the our Founders and their Enlightenment era.
You have more in common with those who persecuted Galileo & Copernicus' ideas than the scientists themselves.
Kalamata: "George Washington stated the earliest U.S. citizens had roughly the same religion (Christianity), and the subversion of that religion was unpatriotic."
Agreed, though Washington himself did not necessarily agree with everything taught in church.
Kalamata: "Some; for example, those who attacked Christianity and perverted the doctrine of Christ.
The "Enlightenment" was not all peace and harmony, Joey.
It also gave us the French head-choppers and Napolean, not to mention Social Darwinism and its incredibly brutal and destructive doctrines.
Try to keep things in perspective."
Oh Danny boy, for many historians the short Enlightenment era ended with the French Revolution, when the high ideals of our Founders' reasoning met the realities of French revolutionary passions.
Kalamata: "The most destructive invention, to date, is the "separation of church and state" usurpation.
It is tragically ironic that Jefferson, the person who warned us against such an invention, had his own words taken out of context..."
Agreed, certainly in the extremes to which separation is sometimes taken.
Kalamata: "Sorry, but that is pure propaganda, Joey.
The Bible is silent on the issue, mentioning only that the earth is "floating" in space: "[The Lord] stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing." -- Job 26:7 KJV"
Oh Danny boy, Galileo was convicted for heresy, a crime, in reference to: 1 Chronicles 16:30, Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, Psalm 104:5, Ecclesiastes 1:5.
I'll come back to your lengthy post #341 later. ![]()
>>Kalamata: “Our Founding Fathers created our great nation in spite of many of the so-called “Enlightenment” thinkers. Even the heavy influence of the blasphemous Christ-mocker, Thomas Paine, was not enough to sway our framers away from establishing a Christian nation which lasted for nearly two centuries, until the corrupting influence of ACLU, Marx and Darwin finally took hold. This is Paine mocking Christ, the Virgin Birth, and the genealogies of Matthew and Luke:...”
>>Joey said: “I “get” that you don’t like Paine and some European Enlightenment figures. Unlike most Founders Paine was not popular with Americans after the war. But during the Revolutionary War Paine not only helped explain it to Americans, he also helped negotiate millions of dollars in foreign aid from European countries.”
Benedict Arnold was a war hero, Joey.
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>>Joey said: “Paine’s religious views did not reflect those of any other Founders I can think of.”
It was most foolish of Paine to attack the faith that had sustained the colonists since they first arrived in America.
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>>Kalamata: “Thankfully, the great majority of our Framers were devout Christians, or this nation would have been destroyed from within before the ink was dry on the Constitution.”
>>Joey said: “Agreed.
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>>Kalamata: “The scientific revolution began in the Renaissance with the discoveries by Christians such as Kepler, Bacon, Pascal, Boyle, Steno, Hooke, Harvey, Huygens, Copernicus, Newton, Linnaeus, Herschel, Faraday, Maxwell, Davy, Cuvier, Herschel, Dalton, Morse, Henry, Maury, Joule, Mendel, Pasteur and Kelvin. The corrupting influence of Darwin and Lyell has led to an unjust marginalization of those great scientists and their achievements.”
>>Joey said: “Sorry, but your list here is a jumble of names from multiple historical periods:
My point was, the revolution by scientists who were also Christians began in the Renaissance and continued until the rhetoric of Darwin and Lyell corrupted everything. In general, the change was from “let’s try to prove this theory wrong,” to “let’s try to prove Darwin and Lyell right.” That is not science.
BTW, Maxwell died in 1879, Kelvin in 1907 (b.1824.) I didn’t mention Einstein as part of the revolution, only that his heroes were three Christian giants from the revolution.
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>>Kalamata: “Who is “we”? I am here to defend Christ, the Founding Fathers, the Constitution, and Christian traditions of western civilization, which includes exposing those who are, or have been corrupting influences against any of those four great pillars of peace and prosperity.”
>>Joey said: “You are often at odds, if not at war, with traditions of the our Founders and their Enlightenment era. You have more in common with those who persecuted Galileo & Copernicus’ ideas than the scientists themselves.”
No, Joey, I am at odds with your understanding of the Founding Fathers and science, and those like you. And get your facts straight about Galileo. The scientific orthodoxy of today is no different than the scientific orthodoxy of Galileo’s day. Both have recruited the power of government to suppress opposing views. I believe science can stand on it own without suppression. You obviously do not.
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>>Kalamata: “George Washington stated the earliest U.S. citizens had roughly the same religion (Christianity), and the subversion of that religion was unpatriotic.”
>>Joey said: “Agreed, though Washington himself did not necessarily agree with everything taught in church.
You always have to get your little dig in, Joey.
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>>Kalamata: “Some; for example, those who attacked Christianity and perverted the doctrine of Christ. The “Enlightenment” was not all peace and harmony, Joey. It also gave us the French head-choppers and Napolean, not to mention Social Darwinism and its incredibly brutal and destructive doctrines. Try to keep things in perspective.”
>>Little Joey said: “Oh Danny boy, for many historians the short Enlightenment era ended with the French Revolution, when the high ideals of our Founders’ reasoning met the realities of French revolutionary passions.
It was not as if there was a light switch to turn it off, Joey. The dangers to society that come from abandoing traditional Christian faith in favor of “reason” still linger. For example, Social Darwinism was very much a product of the Enlightenment. In fact, Charlie’s grandfather, Erasmus, a major figure in the englightenment, held some of the same anti-biblical views that Charlie later adopted.
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>>Kalamata: “The most destructive invention, to date, is the “separation of church and state” usurpation. It is tragically ironic that Jefferson, the person who warned us against such an invention, had his own words taken out of context...”
>>Joey said: “Agreed, certainly in the extremes to which separation is sometimes taken.
Some of the most extreme are your buds, the evolutionists.
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>>Kalamata: “Sorry, but that is pure propaganda, Joey. The Bible is silent on the issue, mentioning only that the earth is “floating” in space: [The Lord] stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.” — Job 26:7 KJV”
>>Little Joey said: “Oh Danny boy, Galileo was convicted for heresy, a crime, in reference to: 1 Chronicles 16:30, Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, Psalm 104:5, Ecclesiastes 1:5. I’ll come back to your lengthy post #341 later.’
No, Joey, Galileo was fodder for the scientific establishment of his day, as are the scientists of our day who refuse to bow to the establishment and kiss the ring of Darwin.
Mr. Kalamata