Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Pennsylvania judge hears Ted Cruz 'birther' challenge
The Allentown Morning Call ^ | March 10, 2016 | Steve Esack

Posted on 03/10/2016 9:12:47 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

HARRISBURG -- Carmon Elliott is not a lawyer. But he got to play one Thursday in state court when he tried to convince a judge that Republican U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz is really a Canadian who has no constitutional right to be a candidate for U.S. president.

Senior Judge Dan Pellegrini of Commonwealth Court was as impressed with Elliott's oral arguments as he was his Uncle Sam tie.

"By the way, I like your tie," said Pellegrini, who's known for his wit as well as his probing legal questions.

Some judges don't like hearing election petition cases argued by pro se litigants because they can be unprepared and disruptive to the political process, Pellegrini said. Not so in Elliott's case.

"I have to compliment you," Pellegrini said in court. "You represented yourself well today."

Elliott, a retiree who lives in Pittsburgh and is a Republican with a self-professed affinity for the U.S. Constitution, went up against Robert N. Feltoon, a lawyer from the Philadelphia firm Conrad O'Brien.

Feltoon argued that Elliott's petition should be dismissed. The U.S. Supreme Court has never specifically ruled on whether a person born outside the United States as Cruz was can run for president, he argued. It is a decision, Feltoon said, that should be made by Congress and the Electoral College, which ultimately elects the president.

Elliott's petition was one of several "birther" lawsuits filed against Cruz after GOP front-runner Donald Trump openly questioned whether the Texas senator can serve as president.

An Illinois judge tossed one lawsuit last week....

(Excerpt) Read more at mcall.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Extended News; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: citizen; cruz; naturalborncitizen; nbc; pennsylvania; tedcruz
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 201-204 next last
To: Revolutionary
US natural born status is blood and soil...

All persons born or naturalized “IN” the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof

subject to both political & physical (local) jurisdiction. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3407761/posts?page=18#18

21 posted on 03/10/2016 9:59:11 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledgee chosen to participate inthat is - 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Penelope Dreadful

This is the first case heard on the merits and sadly, the merits were not as prepared as they should have been. Sloppy preparation begets getting one losing. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3407761/posts?page=18#18


22 posted on 03/10/2016 10:00:41 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledgee chosen to participate inthat is - 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Revolutionary
You cite absolutely no legal "authority" for your assertions.

Many SCOTUS cases say the opposite of what you do. No SCOTUS case says what you do.

23 posted on 03/10/2016 10:04:57 PM PST by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

The U.S. Supreme Court has "clearly, unambiguously made the distinction between natural-born and a naturalized citizen, Elliott argued.

"No they didn't," [the judge] Pellegrini replied. ...

In the end, Elliott lost his case. Later in the day, Pellegrini issued an order leaving Cruz on the ballot, finding legal and statutory history that shows that a "natural born citizen" includes any person who is a U.S. citizen from birth.

Interesting that the judge finds "naturalized" and "natural born" to not be mutually exclusive.

24 posted on 03/10/2016 10:10:49 PM PST by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Revolutionary

Nonsense. If the framers intended what you claim they would not have made a clear distinction between ‘natural born’ citizens and citizens in Article 2, sectin 1, clause 5.
You may as well claim that there’s really no difference between a “lightning bug” and lightning; there’s a big difference if the latter lands on your head.

So Cruz has three options: 1. get a constitutional amendment passed changing Art.2; 2. Lose to Trump; or, 3. Lose to the Democrats, a. In court, b. The first Tuesday this November.
It’s starting to look a lot like #2.


25 posted on 03/10/2016 10:11:18 PM PST by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Neither Congress nor the Electoral College decide questions of law.


26 posted on 03/10/2016 10:11:42 PM PST by Ray76 (Judge Roy Moore for Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cboldt

The order

http://www.pacourts.us/assets/files/resource-760668/file-5051.pdf


27 posted on 03/10/2016 10:15:11 PM PST by Ray76 (Judge Roy Moore for Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Cboldt
I looked up that Wand Kam Wo case above, and it looks like you are right:

A person born out of the jurisdiction of the United States can only become a citizen by being naturalized, either by treaty, as in the case of the annexation of foreign territory; or by authority of Congress, exercised either by declaring certain classes of persons to be citizens, as in the enactments conferring citizenship upon foreign-born children of citizens, or by enabling foreigners individually to become citizens by proceedings in the judicial tribunals, as in the ordinary provisions of the naturalization acts.

So Cruz was made a citizen by the authority of Congress, not thru naturalization. I would be surprised if Cruz lost.

28 posted on 03/10/2016 10:16:39 PM PST by Penelope Dreadful (And there is Pansies, that's for thoughts. (Ophelia, from Hamlet))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Cboldt
You cite absolutely no legal “authority” for your assertions

I cited the US Supreme court, what more do you want?

No SCOTUS case says what you do

On the contrary, if one reads those SCOTUS cases very carefully, applying the legal definitions to the terms as the law defines them to be, everyone of those cases are constitutional. The problem is with “natural born”, all others are citizens by statute, including the Wong Kim Ark case of 1898, which is very cleverly written, and which was also written by Justice Gray, however, Justice Gray does not change the meaning of NBC. WKA was born in the US, he perfected his citizenship before leaving for China, thus he was naturalized by the issuance of a US passport. WKA already had the birth on the soil factor, and upon his swearing allegiance to the US before receiving his passport, he perfected his allegiance to the US.

29 posted on 03/10/2016 10:18:06 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledgee chosen to participate inthat is - 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: patlin

Sorry, I misread the thread...this was NOT meant for you


30 posted on 03/10/2016 10:20:00 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledgee chosen to participate inthat is - 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Cboldt

Sorry, I misread the thread...this was NOT meant for you


31 posted on 03/10/2016 10:20:18 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledgee chosen to participate inthat is - 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Penelope Dreadful
Your remark is schizophrenic nonsense. First you cite language from the Wong Kim ark case (oft repeated in other cases), and then say the opposite of what SCOTUS said in that case.

If Cruz is made a citizens solely by act of Congress, then he is naturalized.

What the report attributes to the judge is a constitutional axiom that a person can simultaneously be naturalized solely by act of Congress, and natural born.

32 posted on 03/10/2016 10:22:13 PM PST by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Springfield Reformer

Sorry this election is too important to have even a shadow of a doubt. I can see Hillary standing at the border and pointing to Cruz’s birthplace. It will absolutely lose the election and we can’t afford that.


33 posted on 03/10/2016 10:24:04 PM PST by w1andsodidwe (TRUMP. YES! Bye Bye Hillary.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Revolutionary

That’s a ridiculous proportion. With the one parent approach, if you have a single American ancestor, you are eligible to be president.

For example, do you really believe Princess Gabriella of Monaco is a NBC? Under your theory, she is. Grace Kelly was a citizen so Prince Albert automatically became one even though he wasn’t born here. And now, his children are all NBCs as well. And so will their kids be, and so forth.

I think its a little hard to believe that this is the system the founding fathers were trying to setup. Ted Cruz is not a NBC.


34 posted on 03/10/2016 10:24:09 PM PST by JhawkAtty
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Penelope Dreadful
A person born out of the jurisdiction of the United States can only become a citizen by being naturalized

either by 

    treaty, as in the case of the annexation of foreign territory, 

or by 

    authority of congress, exercised 
	
    either by 
	
        declaring certain classes of persons to be citizens, as in the enactments conferring citizenship upon foreign-born children of citizens, 
	
    or by 

        enabling foreigners individually to become citizens by proceedings in the judicial tribunals, as in the ordinary provisions of the naturalization acts.

U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 702-703


Cruz is a naturalized citizen. Naturalized by the authority of congress exercised by the enactments conferring citizenship upon foreign-born children of citizens.

35 posted on 03/10/2016 10:26:05 PM PST by Ray76 (Judge Roy Moore for Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Ray76

Thanks for that. Pellegrini cites tertiary sources, not cases! Funny stuff. Even admits that he only read articles.


36 posted on 03/10/2016 10:28:10 PM PST by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Ray76

It isn’t worth fussing about to me, because I am voting for Trump. But I don’t think you are reading the laws correctly. Let me know when the Pennsylvania case is decided and we will see what the judge says.


37 posted on 03/10/2016 10:32:24 PM PST by Penelope Dreadful (And there is Pansies, that's for thoughts. (Ophelia, from Hamlet))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Iron Munro

It’s clear to me that if where you are born DOESN’T mATTER AT ALL, then Obama and his legion of lawyers would have stepped forward to say just that 7 years ago. Evidently hundreds of the smartest lawyers in the country thought that the place of birth issue was a hill to die on. Why?


38 posted on 03/10/2016 10:33:10 PM PST by freedomjusticeruleoflaw (Western Civilization- whisper the words, and it will disappear. So let us talk now about rebirth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Revolutionary
>>> In the early days it was just the blood of the father. Later it could also be the blood of the mother with stipulations on her age, etc. Cruz passes this test. Obama does not.


39 posted on 03/10/2016 10:35:14 PM PST by Safrguns
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Ray76

The Framers INTENDED that the president by born in America, and bred by parents who are citizens. This is a special, natural citizenship that is unassailable. Cruz is ONLY A CITIZEN BECAUSE CONGRESS DECREED THAT IT WOULD BE SO. Without Congress, Cruz would not even be a citizen.


40 posted on 03/10/2016 10:36:31 PM PST by freedomjusticeruleoflaw (Western Civilization- whisper the words, and it will disappear. So let us talk now about rebirth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 201-204 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson