Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Why Not Separate Marriage and State? ZOT! And ZOT Again!
National Review ^ | 3/29/13 | John Fund

Posted on 06/04/2014 10:19:50 AM PDT by Iced Tea Party

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 421-426 next last
To: Mad Dawgg

“If the government does not hand out goodies based on marital status who cares?”

These people will present themselves as married and our children and generations that follow will think nothing of a couple of married lesbians or gays. It then becomes normal.


61 posted on 06/04/2014 11:11:44 AM PDT by Oliviaforever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: Iced Tea Party; frogjerk; xzins; trisham; Responsibility2nd; P-Marlowe; onyx; little jeremiah; ...
Which of the following is an evil nation?

1. The US, where people drive on the right.
2. The UK, where people drive on the left.
If "all laws boil down to moral issues", then clearly, of these two opposite laws, one must be good and the other must be evil.

One way morality is protected is by keeping order.

In the United States, we keep order and protect the population by mandating that people drive on the right and obey other regulations; the United Kingdom does the same but have people drive on the left. So, these ARE NOT opposite laws, they are the same law that utilize slightly different methods.

Good try though, did you come up with that one on your own or did you have to take a few bong hits first?

62 posted on 06/04/2014 11:12:50 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Ohioan

That’s what happens when you let the government intrude into (and inevitably mess up) a societal institution.


63 posted on 06/04/2014 11:13:41 AM PDT by Iced Tea Party (Libertarians are essentially what the Republicans were 30 years ago. --Drew Carey)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: Iced Tea Party

a single record keeping system prevents the issues of abandonment and subsequent bigamy.

you also have tenancy by the entireties which protect widows and children (now widowers)

Anything goes marriage leads to rampant fraud of multiple ownerships and debt collection issues. Those with assets suddenly find out they were “married” via some kind of fraud and have creditors chasing them ala id theft.

Children will never be able to inherit leaving all beneficiaries into the “common good” of government. (to pay your death panel obamacare tax)


64 posted on 06/04/2014 11:13:51 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Iced Tea Party

The government should never have intruded upon the marriage institution, or been allowed to muck around with the definition of marriage. Marriage is a union between a man and a woman, a union between their families and a bridge to the future through children and inheritance. The imitation marriages between homosexuals is another bad joke from pop culture, more perversion of traditional values and our society. A government that participates in the willful destruction of our society and its foundations should be toppled.


65 posted on 06/04/2014 11:14:27 AM PDT by pallis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Iced Tea Party

Conservative churches could reach an agreement that only they determine marriage. But the emphasis of that agreement would be those marriages they reject.

Each faith would have to go back to the very old way of doing things, but share a common registry. Then if a couple showed up at the door of any of them, claiming to be husband and wife, unless they were checked out, they would not be considered as married.


66 posted on 06/04/2014 11:15:03 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("Don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative." -Obama, 09-24-11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Iced Tea Party

Marriage of one man and one woman is fundamental to Natural Law Theory and the “Duty” that all human beings have to raise and care for all their biological offspring. The Natural Family is the basis of all governments/civilizations.

It is fundamental to the philosophy of our Constitution, which is based on Lockean philosophy. Montesquieu stated that all Republics have to promote “Public Virtue” for them to succeed.

Our government is unique— set up to promote “Justice” (Rule of Law (Higher Laws/God’s))-—which is Virtue (our Justice System is based on Christian Ethics which began with Common Law and blossomed into the Magna Carta—no other ethical system, but the Christian one, where Individual Rights originated).

The US government always has to promote “Public Virtue” (otherwise the laws are not “Just”-—and are Null and Void), which is the ethics of Christianity only, since ALL humans have dignity and worth in Christian Ethics—no matter how old or weak. No other ethics system enshrines Individual Natural Rights from God which precedes all governments.

(Without Virtue, there can be no Freedom (Socrates).)

All the Founders KNEW that Virtue is essential for Free Republics, and the only purpose of governments is to enforce contracts-—Natural and agreed upon ones and protect our private property Rights (ALL NATURAL RIGHTS).

So Marriage is definitely a Natural Right which is connected to Duties——a natural contract that is essential to flourishing teleological ends, which should be encouraged and promoted by State Laws——as all Laws have to promote Public Virtue (and Natural Duties) to be “Just Law”.

Any Laws that prohibit or discourage “Natural Duties” are unconstitutional. They would be anathema to the Supreme Law of the Land: “Null and Void”. For Individual Natural Rights are God-given and unalienable and permission from the government is never needed-—but should be promoted-—to create Virtue in the people which is the only purpose of government: “Justice”—the Queen of all Virtue.

Marriage of one man and one woman is the only system designed to make sure human beings do their duty to their own biological offspring.

Any other system denies babies their biological mother and/or father (unnatural)-—and destroys their Natural Rights and reduces babies to an object (Means) to be bought and sold like in slavery. Dehumanizing laws are unconstitutional. Homosexual marriage is an abomination and unnatural and unconstitutional. Judges need to be impeached for allowing such denial of Natural Rights to human beings in our “Justice” system based on Natural Rights from God. It also sets up a system which promotes vice-—not fulfilling one’s Natural Duty of raising your own biological offspring.


67 posted on 06/04/2014 11:15:08 AM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Coronal

“And without government involvement people can accept or reject those marriages as they see fit. As it should be.”

No, that is not how it should be!

What happens when gays reject the Christian Traditional Marriage and then discriminate on that bases?


68 posted on 06/04/2014 11:16:29 AM PDT by Oliviaforever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: Coronal

no they can not. the govenement can FORCE recognition. (see obamacare)


69 posted on 06/04/2014 11:16:37 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: HMS Surprise

Wrong?

How old are you? I ask because you seem ignorant of recent history. Look at LBJ and his Great Society. Replacing the father with a welfare check was the objective and boy did they meet that one. Plus a thousand more.

Its very simple here. Either you support and approve of the Welfare State or you support DOMA and all other laws that supported marriage and made America a great nation for 200 years.


70 posted on 06/04/2014 11:16:51 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee
This nonsense about getting the government out of marriage is just another libertarian ploy to advance the leftist agenda through appeasement

********************************

Do conservatives and libertarians have less and less in common as time goes on, or were their actual beliefs less discernible in past years?

71 posted on 06/04/2014 11:17:14 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

I’ve been arguing for years now that the govt no longer belongs in the marriage business. This positioned managed to upset a few.


72 posted on 06/04/2014 11:18:05 AM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Oliviaforever
"These people will present themselves as married and our children and generations that follow will think nothing of a couple of married lesbians or gays. It then becomes normal."

Oh so then instead we let the government define who can and cannot be married which BTW includes gay marriage right now and THAT decides what is kosher?

Just because someone presents themselves as married does not make it so. It takes two or more people to validate a social convention HOWEVER when the government stamps it Official all contrary Social Convention is invalidated (and so is your argument!) and it becomes LAW! And once you give the government power over such it can quickly be corrupted!

73 posted on 06/04/2014 11:19:27 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

>> just another libertarian ploy t

It’s not a nefarious ploy, wagglebee.

Welcome back!


74 posted on 06/04/2014 11:19:38 AM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Oliviaforever

relying on mere religion concedes the logical arguments to the enemy.

This is a ploy (trial balloon) of politicians who in the secret support their homosexual dc staffers and want to avoid the logic and reasoning to support real marriage.


75 posted on 06/04/2014 11:20:20 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: muir_redwoods
"The government shoud be in the business of issuing a license that recognizes the civil partnership of two consenting adults.

Why just TWO?

76 posted on 06/04/2014 11:21:27 AM PDT by eccentric (a.k.a. baldwidow)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: trisham

I tolerate a lot of crap from libertarians. But when they come on here and start attacking marriage while supporting civil unions and so on.

I’m at my boiling point. I’m pissed off.


77 posted on 06/04/2014 11:22:48 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

Libertarians do not oppose homosexual marriage, so when they make these arguments people should understand where they are coming from. They would basically abolish marriage, which is a stated goal of the radical homosexual movement.


78 posted on 06/04/2014 11:23:58 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 77 | View Replies]

To: Oliviaforever

But if parents teach their children that two men or women cannot be married in the eyes of God, isn’t that likely to carry more weight than what two people in any relationship call themselves? Gay or lesbian couples can say that they are a married couple to their hearts’ content, but if the government does not provide official sanction to any marriage people will regard those relationships in whatever way they choose.


79 posted on 06/04/2014 11:24:13 AM PDT by Coronal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

>> libertarians strongly support the homosexual agenda and will go out of their way to force same-sex marriage on society

And abortion. These modern Libertarians support the killing of nascent, human life. That’s not very libertarian for the well being of the noob.

It’s ironic the modern Libertarian embraces law that forces the citizens to support, service, and sanction homosexual behavior. Well, these supporters of such enforcement are in reality Liberals.


80 posted on 06/04/2014 11:25:40 AM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 421-426 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson