IMO, Obama loathes and wants to effectively replace the influence of all forms of religion with the power of the global socialist state...while the shameless chameleon Romney, whatever his shortcomings, does NOT!
I view Romney as being a politician committed first to his election with marketing branding as a “conservative,” and if elected I expect that having no real core he will govern very conservatively to insure mid-term gains and re-election as a conservative without primary opposition.
I have NO expectation that Romney would revert to ANY of his previous liberal stances, especially on abortion or gay rights or the sort of liberal court appointments in MA. If Romney had core beliefs, he would revert, but from all I have learned about Romney on FR (Thanks Jim Rob!) Romney will do what is best for Romney, and that will be to continue to try to prove his conservative bona fides.
I expect him to go straight to the Federalist Society recommended list for his appointments to SCOTUS, while Obama will go to the ACLU and La Raza.
The Master puppeteer is Satan. His primary political power will be THE Anti-Christ.
By way of parallel example, Romney is to the Mormon prophet what the Anti-Christ is to Satan. Puppet vs. Puppeteer.
This is where ignorance of Mormonism takes over in these religio-political threads. Because it makes absolutely ZERO difference here whatever Romney's personal machinations are! (Only the "prophet's" directives count!)
My Mormon ancestors go back a ways. I have more primary Lds documents than many perhaps even most Lds. I've read what they've spoken from the tabernacle pulpit; I've studied their leaders' writings.
If you have a certain control-freak @ the head of the Mormon church -- as their "prophet" -- then all bets are off are your forecasts.
We know...
...Joseph Smith was running for POTUS the year he died.
...That his ensuer, Brigham Young, was not only prophet but territorial governor who interfered in bringing Mormons to justice (i.e. Mountain Meadows Massacre).
...that 3rd "prophet" John Taylor eventually hated "the United Order" -- socialist/communist communities that his previous "prophets" put into place in communities like Orderville, Kanab, Brigham City, St. George, Bunkerville, Nevada, etc...they had 200 such communities planned...but became extinct by 1900.
...Lorenzo Snow, the 5th Mormon "prophet" 1898-1901, had even run one of these communist cities.
The 4th "prophet" before him, Wilford Woodruff, had the audacity along with Taylor in the 1880s to repeatedly rebuff the feds re: bigamy/polygamy. They thought their power trumped the govt.
There wasn't a Mormon "prophet" who was polygamy-free until 1945...one of those was 6th "prophet" Joseph F. Smith, who lied under oath about polygamous arrangements during the Senate Smoot hearings in the early 1900s.
This is the "Mormon cloth" of leadership from which also -- generations later -- 80-something yr old Lds "prophets" are emerging...
Do we want the free world in the hands of some potential 90-95 yo "prophet" who directs Romney to do whatever he wants?
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I wrote this in April 2009:
If Romney were to be elected, just how much advice would be coming from SLC? That in itself is a scary thought considering their desire for a return to LDS theocracy. But what have LDS leaders & authors themselves said? Here's just a small sample:
Here's what a journalist/spokesperson for the University of Utah said back in 1981:
“Mormons believe they have a divine commission to prepare the world for Christ's millennial reign in which they will serve as officers and administrators. The faithful Saint believes he is building the kingdom of God. This is what motivates the 30,000 full-time missionaries [note, this has almost doubled since 1981] to preach the gospel, and this is what keeps men in their eighties working at a pace that would pitch younger, less motivated men into their graves.” --University of Utah spokesperson Fred Esplin, “The Saints Go Marching On,” Utah Holiday, June 1981, p. 34.
LDS prophet Ezra Taft Benson himself also said in 1988: “Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time 'this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction' [The White Horse Prophesy] Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, 1988, p. 619
LDS author Duane S. Crowther: “[T]here will be a complete change of government Washington, D.C. will cease to be the capital. The present national bureaucracy will have its end. The internal conflict will sweep away the current system of governments and will pave the way for the political kingdom of God and the millennial kingdom through which Jesus Christ will rule and reign...A new government will be established among the saints and that political kingdom of God will espouse and uphold the principles of constitutional government." Duane S. Crowther, Prophetic Warnings to Modern America, 1979, pp. 315-316
Revert? Did he ever leave? (Or perhaps you'd like to become an apologist for what Romney told Katie Couric below about 1,600 days ago:
| YEAR | Obvious Pro-Abortion Romney | Romney Feigning 'Pro-Life' |
| December 2007 vs. November 2011 (Pro-treating offspring as research refuse late in previous POTUS campaign vs. now claiming 'never changed...always pro-life' | December 4, 2007: Romney: ...surplus embryos...Those embryos, I hope, could be available for adoption for people who would like to adopt embryos. But if a parent decides they would want to donate one of those embryos for purposes of research, in my view, that's acceptable. It should not be made against the law." (Source: Candidates Reveal Their Biggest Mistakes) Any "inquiring minds" want to try wrapping their minds around how a politician in one sentence mentions "adopting" embryos out (yes, a great thing to mention!) -- but then in the very NEXT breath says if a "PARENT" wants to be "pro-choice" (Mitt used the word "decides" which is what "pro-choicers" say they want) "to donate one of those embryos for purposes of research, in my view, that's acceptable." Say what???? How about 8-month gestationally-aged infants in the womb, Mitt? Or already-born infants, too, Mitt? If a "parent decides they would want to donate one of those...for purposes of research, in my view, that's acceptable..." No??? What's the 'pro-life' difference, Mitt? Here you call an embryo's mom&dad "parents" -- but "parents" w/ "research" give-away rights? How bizarre we have such a schizophrenic "candidate!" | In the past you’ve said he’s changed positions only once, on abortion. Was that your doing? No, no, I never talked to Mitt about that. Our personal opinions have never changed; we’ve always been pro-life (Ann Romney Reveals Mitt's Softer Side) |
Unless, of course, STC, YOU are willing to come on these threads and announce: "Yup, I just 'donated' my son/daughter/grandson/granddaughter to 'research'...and I'm 'pro-life'."
THAT should be the commercial run...a Romney quote from about two months before he quit his last campaign...advocating the 'researchability' of offspring....
ALL: I addressed this once earlier (post 1,210) but wanted to reinforce what I said there...that it doesn't matter what Romney's own "personal machinations" are -- or aren't -- re either inflicting Mormonism upon the public-at-large or associated concerns...
What needs to be "vetted" is the Mormon "prophet" and future Mormon "prophets" during any of the 4-8 years Romney could be in the White House. What are their machinations -- based upon the "track record" of previous Lds "prophets" and other general authorities?
| Lds Leader | Chronological 'Prophet' or Fundamental # (or Other Title) | Overlap Areas: Could the President of the U.S. become a 'puppet' to an Lds 'Prophet?' (The Lds Prophets -- in their own words) | |
| John Taylor | Lds 'Prophet' #3 | “The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto…[so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours…and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862) | |
| Orson Hyde | President of the Lds Quorum of the 12 Apostles for 28 years (1847-1875) | “What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53) | |
| Heber J. Grant | Lds 'Prophet' #7 | "Elder Marion G. Romney recalled the counsel of President Heber J. Grant: 'My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.' Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, 'But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray'" (in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78)." Cited in Official Lds publication Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, p. 209 (1984) | |
| Harold B. Lee | Lds 'Prophet' #11 | ...President Harold B. Lee said: 'We must learn to give heed to the words and commandments that the Lord shall give through his prophet, '...as if from mine own mouth...(D&C 21:4-5)...You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself..." Cited in official Lds publication Remember Me: Relief Society Personal Study Guide I, p. 27 (1989) | |
| Spencer Kimball | Lds 'Prophet' #12 | "President Spencer W. Kimball said: '...We deal with many things which are thought to be not so spiritual; but all things are spiritual with the Lord, and he expects us to listen, and to obey..." (In Conference Report, Apr. 1977, p. 8; or Ensign, May 1977, p. 7) Cited in official Lds publication Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983, p.12 (1983) | |
| What about Marion G. Romney, cousin to Mitt's father? | Who was he in Lds hierarchy? (Title: 'President' - Top 3 of church as 2nd counselor to both #11 & #12 Lds 'prophets') | "Elder Neal A. Maxwell has said: 'Following the living prophets is something that must be done in all seasons and circumstances. We must be like President Marion G. Romney, who humbly said, '..I have never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, and political life' (Conference Report, April 1941, p. 123). There are, or will be moments when prophetic declarations collide with our pride or our seeming personal interests...Do I believe in the living prophet even when he speaks on matters affecting me and my specialty directly? Or do I stop sustaining the prophet when his words fall in my territory? if the latter, the prophet is without honor in our country! (Things As They Really Are, p. 73). Cited in official Lds publication, Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, pp. 275-276 (1984) | |
| Ezra Taft Benson | Lds 'Prophet' #13 | Benson speech given 2/26/80 @BYU. Summary: “…remember, if there is ever a conflict between earthly knowledge and the words of the prophet, you stand with the prophet…” (See excerpts re: 3 of 14 'fundamentals' below) Source: Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #5 | 5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time. (My Q: Ya hear that Mitt Romney?) | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #9 | 9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual. (My Q: Still listening, Mitt?) | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #10 | 10. The prophet may advise on civic matters. (My Q: What say ye Mitt?) | |
| B.H. Roberts | LDS Historian and Seventy. Note: Roberts was an elected Democratic Congressman from Utah in 1898 -- but was NEVER seated by Congress because of grass roots uproar vs. Roberts, who took a THIRD simultaneous wife in the early 1890s. Grass roots America collected 7 MILLION signatures on 28 banners and presented them to Congress...in pre-mass media 1800s! | “[T]he kingdom of God... is to be a POLITICAL INSTITUTION THAT SHALL HOLD SWAY OVER ALL THE EARTH; TO WHICH ALL OTHER GOVERNMENTS WILL BE SUBORDINATE AND BY WHICH THEY WILL BE DOMINATED.” The Rise and Fall of Nauvoo, 1900, p. 180 | |
| Mitt Romney as POTUS??? | Aside from above prophetic impositions, why would Mitt not only honor what these 'prophets' have spoken, but what a future Lds 'prophet' may tell him to do? | The Law of Consecration Oath Mitt Romney has sworn in the Mormon temple (done before marriage/sealing in temple): "You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the law of consecration as contained in this, the book of Doctrine and Covenants [he displays the book], in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and EVERYTHING with which the Lord has blessed you, or WITH which he MAY bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion." Source: What is an LDS Church/Mormon temple marriage/sealing? [Q: Please define 'Zion': The LDS PR Web site (lds.org) defines its primary meaning: "membership in the [LDS] church."] |