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To: bramps

Never made sense to me either. But it is what “they” say the Bible says.

Born in sin and will go to Hell unless they accept Jesus as their personal savior, something they can’t do until the age of reason.

The logical extension is the only way to guarantee that one commits no sin and therefore goes to Heaven is to die in the womb...


27 posted on 03/31/2012 9:34:21 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1166 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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To: null and void

Nonsense on the babies go to hell.

Job 3 and 16 and 17: “Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth”. Job said, “Let the day perish on which I was to be born and the night which said a boy is conceived! May that day be darkness.”

“Why was I not hidden like a stillborn child, like infants who never saw light?” Why didn’t I die in my mother’s womb? “There the wicked cease from troubling, and there the weary are at rest.”

Notice that key word: REST. What’s he saying? He’s saying, “I’d be better off if I miscarried. I would be better off if I were stillborn, so I wouldn’t have to face a troubling life—that I would enter immediately into,” what? “Rest.” “Rest.” Job understood that dying as an infant would bring one to rest and one would escape the pain of suffering. He certainly didn’t believe that infants that die go to hell and some eternal torment, but rather had the confidence that they enter into rest.

Job is the oldest book in the Bible and what most people had FOR a Bible before Moses wrote what we call the first 5 books.

But we can go on: In Ecclesiastes 6:3-5, Solomon laments. He laments that a stillborn child is better off than a person who lives a thousand years twice and doesn’t enjoy the right things. He says, “What’s the point of living two thousand years if you don’t ever enjoy true goodness? You’d be better off a stillborn child.”

What about sin? Total depravity? Are all babies born sinners? Yes!

Do all sinners go to hell?

NO!

John MacArther said it thusly:

How were you saved? By what? Grace! You say, “Well, if God just takes all the babies to heaven, that’s just grace!” Right! But how were you saved? By law? What do you want? Law for babies and grace for you? You had no more to do with your salvation than a helpless infant. That’s why the truest and purest theology is that theology which understands that salvation is by grace, and maybe that’s what Jesus had in mind in part when He said, “You who go to heaven, go to heaven as little children.” Is there a better illustration of a salvation by grace than the salvation of a helpless infant? Any true understanding of Scripture yields the reality that all salvation is by sovereign choice by God through grace based on nothing that the sinner merits, and is there a better illustration of that than saving lost infants? Does that magnify sovereignty? Does it magnify grace? Of course it does.

God chooses whom He will save. And God calls ALL. Some listen, some do not. The choice to go to hell belongs to you. Babies get full unconditional grace. No contradiction.


30 posted on 03/31/2012 10:13:14 PM PDT by Waywardson (Carry on! Nothing equals the splendor!)
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To: null and void

I do believe you were deceived by my initial post. I’m not here to play games with anyone. I’m a Christian. A few years back I was probably living more in your shoes, but I had the pleasure of meeting some true Christians who are tremendous witnesses to Christ. I didn’t see it coming but one day I was just compelled to ask Christ into my life. I’m often conflicted and have many questions. But I have zero regrets. I post on a thread such as this seeking knowledge from those more informed than me, not to intentionally play the devil’s advocate.


31 posted on 03/31/2012 10:43:56 PM PDT by bramps (Newt is the one)
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