Posted on 03/22/2012 9:03:25 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
Ever since his CPAC Keynote Address in 2010, Rep. Allen West (R-FL) has been one of the gold standards of modern American political conservatism. He has also been widely hailed as a political model for conservative African American politicians. And now, following recent revelations surrounding the highly suspicious shooting of Trayvon Martin, Rep. West has joined a growing bipartisan consensus calling for the case to be reopened, possibly even with Federal assistance. West’s statement, put out today by Talking Points Memo, resonates with controlled fury (emphasis added):
itself in Sanford, Florida involving the shooting of 17-year-old Treyvon Martin. First of all, if all that has been reported is accurate, the Sanford Police Chief should be relieved of his duties due to what appears to be a mishandling of this shooting in its early stages. The US Navy SEALS identified Osama Bin Laden within hours, while this young man laid on a morgue slab for three days. The shooter, Mr Zimmerman, should have been held in custody and certainly should not be walking free, still having a concealed weapons carry permit. From my reading, it seems this young man was pursued and there was no probable cause to engage him, certainly not pursue and shoot him….against the direction of the 911 responder. Let’s all be appalled at this instance not because of race, but because a young American man has lost his life, seemingly, for no reason. I have signed a letter supporting a DOJ investigation. I am not heading to Sanford to shout and scream, because we need the responsible entities and agencies to handle this situation from this point without media bias or undue political influences. This is an outrage.
(Excerpt) Read more at theblaze.com ...
I think I'm not being clear. I am talking about the officer asking Zimmerman his home address. Zimmerman seems to be afraid to tell him because he doesn't know where Martin is (that's the he I'm referring to). That he may be afraid that Martin might get his address somehow and come after him. At least, that's how I heard it.
Martin would have plenty of time, assuming he wasn’t lost at the time.
Probably what will hinge on intent is what can be shown as what happened just prior to the scuffle between the two.
If it can be shown that Zimmerman caught up with Martin, that would show Martin was still trying to retreat. This would make Zimmerman the likely aggressor, removing any claims of self defense. If,however, it can be shown that Martin had to doubleback, then it would support Zimmerman’s claim for self defense.
Yes, it’s clear now, and I agree. That’s how I understood it also.
We cannot say factually that Zimmerman gave up the chase
You are reaching. You can clearly hear the wind as he starts to run in the phone. That's why the dispatcher asked him if he was pursuing. He's also out of breath as he speaks. After he says ok, the wind noise dies down and his speech becomes more normal. If he was still running you would have known that.
Now you might assume that after he hung up with the dispatcher he continued the chase, as AliceinWonderland claims, but that would be only speculation on your part.
When the dispatcher asks the address of where he's parked, he says there's no address he's at a walk-through. So, if he's parked at the walk-through, got out to start the chase, got down the walkway to where Martin ran, then stopped running, it is conceivable that as he walked back to his car he was confronted by Martin as he claims, in the walkway where the altercation occurred.
Not saying this is what happened. It could have been as you say. But the solid evidence that we have so far fits my scenario.
You’re saying Zimmerman couldn’t stop, while talking to the operator, but resume the chase once he’s off the phone?
>>The local authorities have done a masterful job of gathering the evidence in this case
Agreed, here it is:
http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html
In addition to that, here are a couple of news reports from local stations before this became a racialist cause celebe. They seem much better than anything we are seeing now.
http://www.wesh.com/r-video/30696935/detail.html
The news reports coming out now seem designed primarily to whip up a racialist frenzy, rather then throw light on the events.
Not at all. I clearly stated it could have happened as you say. I merely point out that after the phone call ended, any activity one way or the other is speculation. But all speculation is not equal. Mine is consistent with the other factual evidence. Yours involves a deliberate deceit which comports with your prejudgment of Mr. Zimmerman's character. You've already judged him guilty therefore your version of the truth must match that, regardless of the surrounding circumstances.
When engaged in selective editing, it is accepted practice to use ellipses.
Employment of same conveys to your audience that not only are you aware that you've redacted, but also that you're being honest with them about it.
Your selective editing above is quite different than the actual quote: "we don't need you to do that"
The initial contact is irrelevant unless you can show that the actions taken by Martin was an appropriate response. Considering that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and beating him about the head, which is what the evidence and eyewitness testimony show, your burden to show justification is pretty heavy.
And where is the bit where Zimmerman is attacked by Martin coming from nowhere and hitting him?
Did he make this surprise attack while talking to his girl? Or after verbally confronting Zimmerman?
Neither case says much for Z-man's situational awareness.
And doesn't the supposed attack make the verbal questions a bit redundant? Did Z-man get hit, then ask "What are you doing here?"
Or did Z-man lie?
This will be a summer to remember. Obama and the rats will get their race war.
So how did Mr. Zimmerman track down Trayvon in the dark when it’s pretty obvious Trayvon could easily outrun Mr. Zimmerman any day.
You’re in some else’s neighborhood you don’t live in and are just visiting. You have a resident of that gated community who is keeping an eye on you because of the rash of burglaries in the neighborhood. Is there a law against that? Do you assume that the residents of that gated community have an evil intent because they are watching you especially because you might be acting a little suspicious?
After Mr. Martin ran away he came back and attacked Mr. Zimmerman. Have you not figured that out from the 911 calls and the police reports?
Perhaps you have me confused with another, I have not claimed any such thing.
Did he make this surprise attack while talking to his girl? Or after verbally confronting Zimmerman?
I have never claimed a surprise attack. From the girlfriends statement of the conversation, it appears to me, that the first comment would have been initiated by Trayvon. I have not read any place where we can determine with any certainty who threw the first punch, shove...whatever. I suspect Trayvon did but I have no proof. We have no proof that Zimmerman threw the first, either.
Neither case says much for Z-man's situational awareness.
I suppose Zimmerman's situational awareness is important to you. I wasn't planning on grading him but you are welcome to. It appears to me this whole situation went down rather quickly, shockingly quick.The first call to police at 7:11 and the police are on the scene and Trayvon is dead by 7:17.
And doesn't the supposed attack make the verbal questions a bit redundant? Did Z-man get hit, then ask "What are you doing here?"
I don't understand how the verbal question is redundant, perhaps you can further enlighten me. I believe the facts show that the verbal happened first, who spoke first and then a fight ensued--who threw the first punch/shove, again...we don't know for certain. I think what was overheard by the girlfriend in that phone call gives a direction and timeline. If that is of no interest to you and you prefer to imagine your own scenario, have at it. I find it an important piece of information and I will take it into consideration no matter your opinion. Thank you.
Or did Z-man lie?
The Z-man? I don't know a Z-man. However, I do not know if Zimmerman lied and neither do you--that is a fact. Well, unless you are an official on this case and I should think you wouldn't be discussing this on an internet forum.
Well, I missed that. Where is the evidence for that?
Check the aerial in #331. The incident occurred on the walkway behind 2831 Retreat View Circle, which is in the middle of a block of houses. It's as far away from the street as it's possible to get. (And I doubt there'd be any street signs to read there)
OK My bad. I acknowledge that you did not make the excuses for Zimmerman. But others have, and I was pointing out that in the complete timeline you posted there is just no way for the claimed actions by Zimmerman to have occurred.
I hope you are wrong. I fear you might be right.
I agree and I’ll go further—West’s criticism of the local officials is just as bad as Obama’s attack on the Cambridge police that led to the beer summit.
First, it’s probably not that dark as there are probably street lights available and the kid had a grey hoodie, which would show reasonably well in the dark, under street lights.
Second, Zimmerman knew the gated community and the kid did not. The kid had only been there for a few days and probably didn’t know the layout of the community as well as Zimmerman. Also, and it’s only a guess, the kid was probably trying to find his way home at the time he was trying to get away from Zimmerman. This would allow Zimmerman to catch up to him, as Zimmerman’s focus was catching the kid and not getting away.
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