There was no justification for what happened at Mountain Meadows at all, Colo. I made that as clear as I can.
It was a sick atrocity and I stated that clearly. The people who planned it were worthy of execution. Only one was, but four were tried, one of which turned states evidence. IMHO, all of them should have been executed. Anyone found to have been involved with planning or carrying it out should have been executed.
It was never proved that Brigham Young had anything to do with it, and in fact when the messenger from the area reached him with these sick people’s plans, he immediately dispatched a rider (they did not have telegraph in the territory down there yet) with a letter from him to instruct them to leave the immigrants alone and let them pass out of Utah safely.
That rider arrived too late. Books on the matter by LDS and non-LDS historians affirm this. See Arrington’s work from the University of Illinois in 1986 entitled, Brigham Young, An American Moses, also see Brigham Young’s letter that he dispatched, September 10, 1857 letter from Brigham Young to Issac Haight, Brigham Young Office Files in the LDS Archives, as well as the Utah History Association.
Others believe that it was all a ruse and he planned it that way from the beginning. But, based on the historical record and studies, I do not.
People who want to do all they can to implicate the entire Church with this do about as much revisioning as do some members of the Church who just want it to go away and do not want it talked about. Both such people, IMHO, are blinded.
It happened. It was horrific, and we must understand it (like any history) to help make sure it does not happen again. I make no apoliogies for it. Plain and simple it was an atrocity.
But there was also historical context which you have to take into account if you want to understand the sick motivations that led to it...and that historical context is also brutal and filled with murder and mobocracy. A sad part, a very tragic part of American history for all of the victims on both sides. And there are no excuses on either side.
The “adoption” of the surviving children was a farce and as I said those children were later retrieved from those families and reunited with their own surviving families as they should have been.
You may say whatever you wish, but I and everyone I know views Mountain Meadows with the same disdain and horror.
History is an interestimng thing...there is misunderstanding and misinterpretationn on both sides in events like this and citations from people who see it one way or the other can all be drawn. I will not say you are revising anything Colo...I agree it was sick, twisted, and an abject atrocity...but I will also say there was a context to it, that does not at all excuse it, but can shed light into the misplaced motivations that led to it.
So, despite your allegations, Colo, there is no cover-up, on my part...
The fact is that the Baker-Fancher party from Arkansas was joined by a party of Missourians as they traveled, it is also a fact that local Paiute Indians, coached by these evil conspirators did join in the attacks. See Banncrofts account, Mountain Meadows Massacre - An 1889 Aaccount, and also Morris Shirts 1994 account, Mountain Meadows Massacre.
...and, you are correct eight years old was not the planned “cut off” point for these murders, it was decided to be seven years old, and they clearly did not make the distinction very well in their sick atrocity precisely because of the horrible situations you cite. In the end, I believe 17 children were not killed and were placed with those local families.
I only wish to God none of it had occurred because of the abject evil acts of those who conspired and carried it out.
Hope that helps in your understanding of my thoughts and feelings on the matter. Despite your personal implications and accusation of lies, cover-up, deception, etc., etc. about me personally (which I categorically deny), I have been as clear as I know how to be and am not afraid to discuss Mountain Meadows or condemn it for the atrocity it was as I hope my statements here amply demonstrate.
I ping LS to this because he is a noted, well written historian whom I know and trust unequivocably here on FR who has authored several excellent American History books for education, including the very good, “A Patriots History of the United States”. He is also not LDS. Larry, if you have anything to add, or corrections to make on my narrative, please feel free.
Jeff:
For the sake of the argument only, let’s accept that what you say about Brigham Young is correct, namely, that he had nothing to do with the September 11th Mountain Meadow Massacre and that he tried to stop it.
So why did Brigham Young subsequently order the desecration of the victims’ final resting place? Given that all the victims were Christian, why did Brigham Young order the removal of the cedar cross on top of the cairn?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrances_of_the_Mountain_Meadows_massacre
http://1857massacre.com/MMM/replica.htm
http://www.mtn-meadows-assoc.com/
And why has the LDS never restored the final resting place or apologized for the desecration?