Posted on 01/25/2012 10:46:29 PM PST by stevelackner
Millions of innocent souls perished at the hands of Nazism and Communism. These ideologies are undoubtedly responsible for the greatest crimes in all of world history. The question of which ideology should be considered worse is discussed in a May 15, 2005 article in the New York Times by columnist and author Roger Cohen. Cohen’s article, "1945's Legacy: A Terror Defeated, Another Arrives" (see http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9801E6DC1E30F936A25756C0A9639C8B63), analyzes the possible answers to this question without coming to a conclusion on the topic. He demonstrates the unique evils inherent in the history of both. He importantly points out that when it comes to the history of the Soviet Union and Communism’s crimes some have tried to whitewash what Cohen refers to as “the dirty laundry of Communism.” It is impossible to declare one ideology as worse than the other and more important to make sure that nobody, be they Holocaust revisionists or members of the Russian Government, attempt to portray them as anything less than legacies of the worse kinds of terror known to mankind.
Cohen perfectly analyzes why one would think that Communism and Nazism are morally distinct. If one studies merely the numbers one would know that Communism killed upward of 80 million people, a number substantially greater than the amount killed by Hitler. Hitler’s Germany, on the other hand, was systematically trying to destroy a particular group of people in the grandest genocide in world history in which six million Jews were slaughtered . A Jew may think Nazism more depraved, while a Ukranian might find Communism to be the more malevolent. To the millions of victims of both, however, it is impossible to make any claim of superior wickedness.
Russian officials have tried to play down their own history by pointing out that Soviet Union fought “The Great Patriotic War” to defeat Nazism. Former Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said that "when people today discuss whether we occupied anybody's country or not, I want to ask them: what would have happened to you had we not broken the back of fascism?” The Red Army deserves much credit for their role in defeating Nazism but that is no excuse for the suffering caused by the expansion of Soviet influence and the creation of “satellite states” in Eastern Europe. On April 25th, 2005, Russian President Vladimir Putin lamented the fall of the Soviet Empire saying that “first and foremost it is worth acknowledging that the demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.” This kind of rhetoric is unacceptable for the highest official of what is supposed to be a democratic Russia. The collapse of what Ronald Reagan termed the “evil empire” was not in any way a catastrophe. It is far more important to make sure true history is not rewritten than to debate which is the lesser of two evils.
The title of the article is itself historically inaccurate: “1945's Legacy: A Terror Defeated, Another Arrives.” The terror of the Soviet Union pre-dated the second world war. Before 1939 Stalin’s Great Purges were already taking place. The Great Famine of Ukraine between 1932-1933 as a direct result of Stalin’s policy of forced collectivization killed an estimated six to seven million people. Not only that, but the Soviets were allied with Germany under the Hitler-Stalin Pact which included economic trade with the German Army right up until the Nazi marched east into territory controlled by the Soviets. The Pact included a secret protocol which called for the creation of “spheres of interest” in the areas conquered by the two countries, effectively creating what was in actuality an aggressive military alliance. The Soviets only became enemies with the Third Reich when the Nazis began marching toward Moscow in Operation Barbarossa. The Second World War was a triangulated battle with Democracy, Fascism, and Communism as the power players. Once Fascism was defeated a struggle between Democracy and Communism was bound to emerge. Winston Churchill understood that “Uncle Joe” Stalin was not our ally and delivered the Iron curtain speech in Fulton, Missouri, in 1946. Arguably, the Second World War really ended when the Soviet Union collapsed . This point is critical because it provides a better understanding of the evil of Communism. It also demonstrates 1945's true legacy. 1945 was a switch in gears in the epic battle between the forces in the world, with Fascism (and Japanese Imperialism) destroyed while Communism and Democracy began the second round of conflict.
Roger Cohen’s article is insightful in it’s analysis of whether a “meaningful distinction can be made, in moral terms, between Communist totalitarian terror and Nazism.” There is no honest way to decipher the lesser of two evils in this sort of context. Though there are misrepresentations, Cohen deals with this central quandary. Cohen ends off his article by saying that “the search for truth remains a work in progress.” This project is sabotaged by the efforts of revisionists and apologists who seek to obfuscate the truth. It is our duty to make sure that the history we know is not corrupted.
All Totalitarians are evil bastards.
Communists, Marxists, Socialist, Progressives, Fascists, Nazis (yes, they were the National Socialists) All Are Staist and Leftist.
Create nothing, only lie, steal, subject, destroy and murder.
They all resort to murder when it is necessary to stay in power.
And they all result in a bloodbath and body count of unspeakable and unheard-of proportions.
The difference, the Nazis filmed their atrocities, and Communists didn’t.
None of these apples have fallen far from the tree...Marxism
Statist power is as statist power does...(To rephrase a famous observation.)
“The difference, the Nazis filmed their atrocities, and Communists didn’t.”
In some cases the Soviets did. Try to get a copy of “Inside the Aquarium”, the autobiography of a defector. In it, a ‘training film’ is shown to each new MGU recruit. It is the film of a previous MGU member who tried to defect. He is being fed into a crematorium.
Alive.
After the film, the new recruit is asked if there are any questions.
Of course to the libs, just Nazis are evil,but Communists get a pass. What’s the difference if your executioner wears a swastika or a Red star? You’re just as dead either way.
What I don't understand is why Communist atrocities are whitewashed, while the Nazi's are forever demonized in our history books?
Are we talking about body count, rate of liquidations, attitude towards your victim, criteria for selecting them? Once that issue is settled, there are other moral and logistical questions to address such as system longevity, technology used, etc.
Overall, I give the nod to Communism but suspect each person will see it differently.
Once you reach a certain level, whatever that might be.... quantitive, methodology, inhumanity..... differences become moot. I’d score them both as a reasonable definition of ‘evil’.
It’s a distinction without a difference. They were both socialism with a view toward world domination. Throw in maoism and you’ve got the hat trick.
Communism, hands down. Tragically, too many people—influential people—are still rooting for Communism to “work.” Therefore, it gets a pass.
The world has had plenty of opportunity to film Communism’s evils in the nearly 70 years since Nazism unraveled. Both were horrific; one lasted less than 20 years, the other is nearing it’s 100th birthday alive & well (and still killing).
Nazis were “national socialists”, with an eye towards a “Greater Germany” dominating Europe (they built no aircraft carriers, few heavy bombers); the Bolsheviks were determined to spread “world socialism” around the globe (and nearly succeeded). At no point in WWII was Germany a threat to the United States; even the threat from Japan was weak - within six months of Pearl Harbor they were losing the war (after Midway).
Research the term “World Island” within the Nazi context. It’s true they fought for a larger Germany but the long term goal was world domination
bfl
Germany had the largest Communist Party outside of the Soviet Union in the early 1930s. Had Germans chosen Communism rather than Nazism the world would be entirely different today. Germans had to choose one or the other. There was no third alternative. By 1930 the Soviets had already killed millions. Nazi crimes were in the future. For many Nazism was a reaction to Communism. The anti-Semetic component of National Socialism can be explained by the large Jewish contribution to the Soviet cause. Compare the number of films dealing with Nazi crimes with the films produced about Communist crimes. Every major western city has a Holocaust museum. Where are the museums devoted to the Holodomor? “We must never forget.” But what if we don’t know what happened? How can we forget it? Who cares about the tens of millions of Chinese casualties of “Hope and Change”?
Both are virulent forms of socialism,
so this is a comparison of very like things.
Both should have been stangled in the crib,
as Churchill said of communism.
These are spiritual fights manifested in the material world.
Jesus Christ is coming back and going to make it right.
Correct.
In the past 100 years the death toll is staggering and little talked about in public schools. The typical history teacher in public schools never seems to make the connection between Totalitarianism in any fashion and the deaths associated.
“It’s true they fought for a larger Germany but the long term goal was world domination”
They may have thought Britain & the US would see the wisdom of the Nazi way, but militarily it could never happen. As it was they were very dependent on their conquered territories and allies for much of their war machine.
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