Posted on 11/10/2011 8:17:29 AM PST by greyfoxx39
Mark Halperin called it the “most important debate moment” of Wednesday night’s CNBC debate. No — it wasn’t Rick Perry’s brain lapse — but instead, Mitt Romney’s attempt to re-frame the debate over ideological consistency.
Read this excerpt of the transcript below, and then let’s discuss…
HARWOOD: … as you know. Your opponents have said you switched positions on many issues. It is an issue of character, not personal, but political, you seemed to encapsulate it in the last debate when you said, “I’m running for office, for Pete’s sake.”
What can you say to Republicans to persuade them that the things you say in the campaign are rooted in something deeper than the fact that you are running for office?
ROMNEY: John, I think people know me pretty well, particularly in this state, in the state of Massachusetts, New Hampshire that’s close by, Utah, where I served in the Olympics. I think people understand that I’m a man of steadiness and constancy.
I don’t think you are going to find somebody who has more of those attributes than I do. I have been married to the same woman for 25 — excuse me, I will get in trouble, for 42 years.
(LAUGHTER)
ROMNEY: I have been in the same church my entire life. I worked at one company, Bain, for 25 years. And I left that to go off and help save the Olympic Games. I think it is outrageous the Obama campaign continues to push this idea, when you have in the Obama administration the most political presidency we have seen in modern history.
They are actually deciding when to pull out of Afghanistan based on politics. Let me tell you this, if I’m president of the United States, I will be true to my family, to my faith, and to our country, and I will never apologize for the United States of America. That’s my belief.
(Emphasis mine.)
This was an interesting diversion. The question was about Romney’s philosophical inconsistency — but he never addressed his changing positions on important issues like abortion. Romney is clearly attempting to associate the two things — as if to imply that not quitting your job equals not flip-flopping on the issues.
… And yet, it wasn’t obvious that he had dodged the question. (Good spin isn’t blatant.)
Of course, the fact that Romney has been with the same wife for 42 years — worked at the same company for 25 years — and belonged to the same church his entire life is, I suppose, commendable. His personal life has been steady, boring, and consistent — nobody has alleged otherwise.
But does it have anything to do with his changing policy positions?
I would argue this was a very slick example of sophistry.
The notion that there is a strong correlation between being consistent in ones personal life, and being philosophically consistent, is debatable. Does anyone doubt that Mark Sanford — with all his faults — would be more trusted than Romney to advance a conservative agenda as president? Jimmy Carter was, as far as I know, a good husband — does that make him philosophically sound?
This, of course, is not to say that values and character do not matter — they do — but it is to say that Romney’s answer was a non sequitur. Everyone knows Mitt Romney is a decent, respectable person. The question is whether or not he can be trusted to advance conservatism as president.
(And attacking Obama at the end was a nice touch, too.)
I was a basic politician’s non-answer. Nothing new and they all do it.
| Lds Leader | Chronological 'Prophet' or Fundamental # (or Other Title) | Overlap Areas: Could the President of the U.S. become a 'puppet' to an Lds 'Prophet?' (The Lds Prophets -- in their own words) | |
| John Taylor | Lds 'Prophet' #3 | “The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto…[so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours…and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862) |
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| Orson Hyde | President of the Lds Quorum of the 12 Apostles for 28 years (1847-1875) | “What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53) | |
| Heber J. Grant | Lds 'Prophet' #7 | "Elder Marion G. Romney recalled the counsel of President Heber J. Grant: 'My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.' Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, 'But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray'" (in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78)." Cited in Official Lds publication Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, p. 209 (1984) | |
| Harold B. Lee | Lds 'Prophet' #11 | ...President Harold B. Lee said: 'We must learn to give heed to the words and commandments that the Lord shall give through his prophet, '...as if from mine own mouth...(D&C 21:4-5)...You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself..." Cited in official Lds publication Remember Me: Relief Society Personal Study Guide I, p. 27 (1989) | |
| Spencer Kimball | Lds 'Prophet' #12 | "President Spencer W. Kimball said: '...We deal with many things which are thought to be not so spiritual; but all things are spiritual with the Lord, and he expects us to listen, and to obey..." (In Conference Report, Apr. 1977, p. 8; or Ensign, May 1977, p. 7) Cited in official Lds publication Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983, p.12 (1983) | |
| What about Marion G. Romney, cousin to Mitt's father? | Who was he in Lds hierarchy? (Title: 'President' - Top 3 of church as 2nd counselor to both #11 & #12 Lds 'prophets') | "Elder Neal A. Maxwell has said: 'Following the living prophets is something that must be done in all seasons and circumstances. We must be like President Marion G. Romney, who humbly said, '..I have never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, and political life' (Conference Report, April 1941, p. 123). There are, or will be moments when prophetic declarations collide with our pride or our seeming personal interests...Do I believe in the living prophet even when he speaks on matters affecting me and my specialty directly? Or do I stop sustaining the prophet when his words fall in my territory? if the latter, the prophet is without honor in our country! (Things As They Really Are, p. 73). Cited in official Lds publication, Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, pp. 275-276 (1984) | |
| Ezra Taft Benson | Lds 'Prophet' #13 | Benson speech given 2/26/80 @BYU. Summary: “…remember, if there is ever a conflict between earthly knowledge and the words of the prophet, you stand with the prophet…” (See excerpts re: 3 of 14 'fundamentals' below) Source: Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #5 | 5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time. (My Q: Ya hear that Mitt Romney? Ya hear that Jon Huntsman?) | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #9 | 9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual. (My Q: Still listening, Mitt? Still listening, Jon?) | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #10 | 10. The prophet may advise on civic matters. (My Q: What say ye Mitt? What say ye Jon?) | |
| Mitt Romney as POTUS??? | Aside from above prophetic impositions, why would Mitt not only honor what these 'prophets' have spoken, but what a future Lds 'prophet' may tell him to do? | The Law of Consecration Oath Mitt Romney has sworn in the Mormon temple (done before marriage/sealing in temple): "You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the law of consecration as contained in this, the book of Doctrine and Covenants [he displays the book], in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and EVERYTHING with which the Lord has blessed you, or WITH which he MAY bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion." Source: What is an LDS Church/Mormon temple marriage/sealing? [Q: Please define 'Zion': The LDS PR Web site (lds.org) defines its primary meaning: "membership in the [LDS] church."] |
Romney makes me think of an animated Ken doll.
I caught that as well. Things that make you go “hmmmm”.
Repub voters are going to have to decide between a moderate liberal OR a conservative. How would Romney govern? What he says and what he does are two different things — and one can only judge by his actual record.
You decide.
That is the proper order. You really think you should put your country before your God?
Bottom line.
Romney was Governor of Mass which is a blue state. He implemented a medical/insurance plan which is socialist. He is a mormom.
He is Bob Dole without the personality.
“That is the proper order. You really think you should put your country before your God?”
The Marines are dedicated to “God, country, corps” in that order.
Does anyone here suspect the Marines fidelity to the nation?
I really think that anyone who has taken a solemn and sacred vow to "you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and EVERYTHING with which the Lord has blessed you, or WITH which he MAY bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion."
...has NO business vying for the Presidency of the United States.
This is a direct conflict.
Can any of them be trusted?
I don’t think so.
I don’t trust any politician. Their stock in trade is lies.
MY wife had it right the first time she ever saw Mitt Romney on television:
“Oh god, who is that slimeball, he looks and sounds like a used car salesman!”
“Let me tell you this, if I’m president of the United States, I will be true to my family, to my faith, and to our country, and I will never apologize for the United States of America. That’s my belief.”
1. He didn’t say that this was in rank order. Period. You did.
2. If it is in this order, I have no problem with it and I agree that this list of three things are most important to me. As far as rank ordering it goes, I’m sure God would guide me. Not FR.
3. I can’t think of the third thing, I’m still laughing about Perry’s response from last night and thinking that it’s odd I can’t remember something so crucial.
“Jimmy Carter was, as far as I know, a good husband “
But he DID look with lust at other women!!
Wrong question. Should we elect a man who puts allegiance to false God before the USA?
if I’m president of the United States, I will be true to my family, to my faith, and to our country, and I will never apologize for the United States of America. That’s my belief.
____________________________________
Which family members is Romney refering to ???
Parley P Pratt and Miles Romney ???
and his Mormon religion BEFORE our country ???
How can he be true to his Mormon religion and true also to our country ???
The Mormons went at war against the United States over Mormonism...
And he thinks he has to APOLOGIZE for the United States ???
This is a guy who refused to serve in the US milkitary when he was drafted...TWICE...
Not the rhetoric or actions of a man who is proud of his country and thinks America is the greatest country on Earth...
How would Romney govern? A good question, and we know the answer - like a liberal.
The moderators were so transparently biased.
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