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Australia to ask Britain to pardon two 'Breaker Morant' soldiers executed in Boer War
Daily Mail (UK) ^ | 21st October 2011

Posted on 10/21/2011 5:09:44 PM PDT by naturalman1975

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To: naturalman1975

And a man’s enemies shall be those of his own household.....


21 posted on 10/21/2011 5:51:06 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
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To: Tax-chick
A little Kipling to clear the palate.

Lichtenberg
(New South Wales Contingent)

Smells are surer than sounds or sights
To make your heart-strings crack--
They start those awful voices o' nights
That whisper, " Old man, come back! "
That must be why the big things pass
And the little things remain,
Like the smell of the wattle by Lichtenberg,
Riding in, in the rain.

There was some silly fire on the flank
And the small wet drizzling down--
There were the sold-out shops and the bank
And the wet, wide-open town;
And we were doing escort-duty
To somebody's baggage-train,
And I smelt wattle by Lichtenberg--
Riding in, in the rain.

It was all Australia to me--
All I had found or missed:
Every face I was crazy to see,
And every woman I'd kissed:
All that I should n't ha' done, God knows!
(As He knows I'll do it again),
That smell of the wattle round Lichtenberg,
Riding in, in the rain!

And I saw Sydney the same as ever,
The picnics and brass-bands;
And my little homestead on Hunter River
And my new vines joining hands.
It all came over me in one act
Quick as a shot through the brain--
With the smell of the wattle round Lichtenberg,
Riding in, in the rain.

I have forgotten a hundred fights,
But one I shall not forget--
With the raindrops bunging up my sights
And my eyes bunged up with wet;
And through the crack and the stink of the cordite
(Ah Christ! My country again!)
The smell of the wattle by Lichtenberg,
Riding in, in the rain!

22 posted on 10/21/2011 5:54:31 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: naturalman1975

Tut, tut, and all that rot.

Victoria Itself should have faced a firing squad for the MURDERS of the tens of thousands of innocent children, women and their defenders.

SHE/WE ranks only behind Mao and Stalin I believe in modern mass slaughter.


23 posted on 10/21/2011 5:55:04 PM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: Izzy Dunne
The Distinguished Service Order.

A very high level British decoration.

Sometimes awarded for bravery, it was actually primarily intended as an award for overall distinguished service.

24 posted on 10/21/2011 5:58:49 PM PDT by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: naturalman1975

Tremendous movie and a sad slice of military justice.
Thanks for the link.


25 posted on 10/21/2011 6:08:48 PM PDT by pgobrien (God save me from 'good' people.)
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To: JoeProBono

Breaker Morant - A fantastic film. I highly, highly recommend it to those who haven’t seen it.
...and while we’re on the subject of Aussie-oriented war flicks, Gallipoli (starring a young Mel Gibson) is another great picture.


26 posted on 10/21/2011 6:09:53 PM PDT by mkleesma (`Call to me, and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know.')
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To: Charlespg
Kitchener gave the order that Boers in Khaki could be treated as spies and shot.

He also signed the execution warrants for both Morant and Handcock and he was under no obligation to do so - he could have commuted their sentences as he commuted Wittons.

27 posted on 10/21/2011 6:11:09 PM PDT by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: naturalman1975

Ah Kitchener...
Was there any vicinity on earth which that blunderer did not defile?


28 posted on 10/21/2011 6:24:26 PM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: mkleesma; naturalman1975
I'll second that. The movies "Breaker Morant" & "Gallipoli" are excellent and I have them both in my DVD library.

I enjoyed the very fair summary in Post #1. On eBay I purchased the book "Bushveldt Carbineers: The War Against the Boers in South Africa and the 'Breaker' Morant Incident" from a South Africa seller year ago.

29 posted on 10/21/2011 6:32:54 PM PDT by steelyourfaith (If it's "green" ... it's crap !!!)
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To: naturalman1975
Kitchener gave the order that Boers in Khaki could be treated as spies and shot.

if Kitchener gave that order[by khaki i guess in a boer uniform of some kind] ,then he should should have been tried as well

why the hell where the British there in the fist place ,gold and diamonds I guess

30 posted on 10/21/2011 6:36:05 PM PDT by Charlespg
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To: nkycincinnatikid

She certainly introduced it to the 20th century but Stalin, Mao and Hitler are the heavy hitters in the ranks.


31 posted on 10/21/2011 6:37:57 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Charlespg

The Brits were in South Africa for the purpose of killing white folks. They enjoyed it I presume.


32 posted on 10/21/2011 6:39:49 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Tax-chick
I pray for greater Contemptus Mundi.
33 posted on 10/21/2011 6:48:00 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: Charlespg
Khaki was the term used at the time for British army battledress - it referred to the colour of one of the first widespread attempts by British soldiers to be camouflaged in battle, as opposed to the older redcoat idea.

So references to Boers in Khaki, meant to Boers wearing stolen British uniforms. There was an argument to treat them as spies in such cases - except that British uniforms were also much warmer and much more rugged than what the Boers typically had, so were often stolen simply as a matter of keeping warm at night. Nobody would have argued against the idea of shooting a Boer who had genuinely tried to fight under false colours - but in the circumstances a blanket statement that all Boers wearing Khaki were to be shot was unlawful. And yes, arguably, Kitchener could have been tried - but back in those days, that was certainly not going to happen - and he may have also received the order from his superiors in London.

34 posted on 10/21/2011 7:01:34 PM PDT by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: Charlespg
Khaki was the term used at the time for British army battledress - it referred to the colour of one of the first widespread attempts by British soldiers to be camouflaged in battle, as opposed to the older redcoat idea.

So references to Boers in Khaki, meant to Boers wearing stolen British uniforms. There was an argument to treat them as spies in such cases - except that British uniforms were also much warmer and much more rugged than what the Boers typically had, so were often stolen simply as a matter of keeping warm at night. Nobody would have argued against the idea of shooting a Boer who had genuinely tried to fight under false colours - but in the circumstances a blanket statement that all Boers wearing Khaki were to be shot was unlawful. And yes, arguably, Kitchener could have been tried - but back in those days, that was certainly not going to happen - and he may have also received the order from his superiors in London.

35 posted on 10/21/2011 7:02:14 PM PDT by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: muawiyah

Britain was not ‘actively’ engaged in genocide against the Boers, that is a myth.

The deaths in the Boer camps were appalling, but not deliberate. The deaths in the camps came about because the Boer community over the decades had not intermarried with the other European groups, and as a result had no or little natural genetic resistance to certain disease such as typhus. A fatal mix of passing genetic flaws constantly within the community and no ability to ‘bring in’ other European genetic strands which would have helped the Boer genes.

Hence the women and children and old people had no resistance to the rampant disease, not helped by the unintentional but appalling mismanagement of the military.

There was a public and political outcry in Britain and Ireland when the nature and the horror of the camps became apparent, and that almost overnight massive changes were made, including hundreds of doctors and nurses being sent along with many supplies to South Africa, the running of the camps being civilian not military and after the changes the rampant diseases stopped and deaths ceased.


36 posted on 10/21/2011 7:13:03 PM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: nkycincinnatikid

Britain did not murder thousands of Boers, try reading what actually happened instead of the ‘concentration camp’ myth.

Read my reply to another poster, it explains what happened, no point in posting it twice.


37 posted on 10/21/2011 7:16:02 PM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: muawiyah

Queen Vic and the Brits didnt murder Boers en masse, so we/she ‘introduced’ nothing.

And given that late 19thC America gave us the Sand Creek and Wounded Knee massacres and the overall appalling treatment of the Native American running parallel with equally appalling treatment of black America, I wouldnt settle myself down in that ivory tower too long if I were you.


38 posted on 10/21/2011 7:19:51 PM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: naturalman1975
Nearly all armies of the world and through-out history up to WWII have shot person involved in fighting who were not in uniform as spies or saboteurs.

Including all of American history up to the American army in Germany in WWII (google how captured "werewolf's were treated).

It is only a very modern PC policy to give the same protection to in war to soldiers that become POWs to any fool who picks up a rifle and starts shooting.

39 posted on 10/21/2011 7:22:47 PM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: nkycincinnatikid
SHE/WE ranks only behind Mao and Stalin I believe in modern mass slaughter.

For killing tens of thousands?

She would have needed to up that count by at least a factor of 100 to be in serious contention with the 20th century's true mass murders.

40 posted on 10/21/2011 7:30:44 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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