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To: OneWingedShark
Then, by your own definition, Jesus committed suicide no ifs, ands, or buts...

Simply untrue.

192 posted on 09/15/2011 12:45:44 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (We still hold these truths to be self-evident...)
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To: EternalVigilance
As a man, Jesus was put to death by the Romans. Nailed to a cross. He didn’t nail Himself there.

And as God He had ALL authority, in Heaven and Earth; He even said to Pilate that he (Pilate) held no authority except that which came down (and God is the ultimate source of that authority, no?).
Furthermore, John says of Jesus [John ch 1] "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God [...] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us [...]"
So, Jesus, being God became man and died on the cross... furthermore, God being omnipotent knew this, and thus Jesus knew this as well (or else why did he prophesy about the temple of His own body being raised again?).
Therefore, by the definition you gave [post #189], that suicide is "whether you kill yourself or not" God did indeed commit suicide in the person of Jesus.

This is the foundation of Christian faith: That God being a Just God cannot stand the presence of sin, but also that He loves Man (whom He made in his own image). So, presented with this dilemma He took an amazing choice, He died instead of destroying sinful man utterly. (And because He is an infinite God His death covers all sin of finite man... the only thing we have to do to "get in on the deal" is to recognize/accept the offer.) But we are condemned by sin already until and unless we believe in the offer that is, quite literally, Himself.

John 3:10-20 lays this all out:

Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

As God, He has total authority, complete sovereignty, over life and death for every human being. Always has, always will.

Have I claimed otherwise? No.

You’re not God.
 
And if He decides your life on this earth is over today, it’s over.

I never claimed to be God; I never claimed that He had no authority over life.
But ironically, you are asserting that the state has that authority over life.

And that doesn’t make Him a murderer, either.

I never claimed that either.

It makes Him exactly what He is: the Sovereign.

Do you notice that these points are ones I am agreeing with? Or is that so lost on you because I tell you the truth: God commuted suicide [in the person of Jesus].

194 posted on 09/15/2011 1:30:42 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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