Posted on 06/08/2011 8:41:14 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER
You're being a bit dramatic. The US does dealings with countries that also have questionable governments. Ever hear of Saudi Arabia? And before the war, Iraq? What about Venezuela? We're the largest buyer of Venezuelan oil.
“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.”
Well, you're a Christian. Did you know, many Christians in China, while seeking total freedom of religion, also seek to continue to have the country expand economically?
For the record, those embracing China take part in their criminality and cruelty.
I don't buy that. I buy gasoline that may well be from oil from parts of the world where there are terrible human rights abuses. But I don't feel I'm supporting those actions by buying gas made from their oil.
Human rights in the People's Republic of China... ABUSES include those regarding: Civil liberties: Freedom of speech Freedom of the press Freedom of movement Treatment of rural workers Religious freedom Christianity Tibetan Buddhism Political freedom Then there is their One-child policy.
China has her problems, no doubt. But overall, things are getting better there. That is why their economy continues to expand. Greater and greater freedom of movement in China.
But anyone still interested in investing for their own selfish gain over the interest of conscience and country and the principles it was founded on can have at it. As long as they are aware they are bedding with the devil and will reap what is sown by those actions.
Likely, what is going to happen, is that jobs will be created by Chinese investments. As America grapples with $14 trillion in debt, and climbing, Chinese investment will be welcomed, I gurantee it.
We are (barely) still a free enough nation for individuals to choose as they will where they want to invest their money. But accepting the ChiComs as legitimate business partners is a dangerous game.
You have it all wrong. If I quit my job today, and spent full time studying all the investment options available to you, it would take me years to learn all the bonds, stocks, real estate, commodities market, options, etc. Lets not forget loans for businesses, etc. and business opportunities. And that's just the domestic front. It would take me years more to learn about the overseas opportunities available to Americans. So, once again, you're a bit dramatic.
I could guarantee they would rather gain the freedom to worship as they choose without the threat of imprisonment, torture or death because they choose to follow Christ over the desire for lucre under the treacherous Communist regime of which they are in bondage.
There is nothing 'dramatic' about loving and caring for my fellow bretheren in China by choosing my investments wisely and with conscience by avoiding all things Communist Chinese. It is one issue to be forced to buy a product (oil, etc.) because there is no other choice (thank you NAFTA etc.) and one is dependent to a certain extent on that product. (Example: Most people are dependent on oil to put in their car to get themselves to work and support their family. And though they can avoid supporting Venezuela by not buying their gasoline at CITGO or Valero, it is nearly impossible to find a station that guarantees their petrol is from say, Texas or the Gulf of Mexico).
When given the freedom to put my investment money where my conscience leads I will run from supporting or partnering financially with tyranny. Starting with the ChiComs.
6/27/11
“Laogai Museum in D.C. focuses on human rights abuses in China”
“...“I saw many people passing away,” said Wu, now a U.S. citizen who lives in Virginia. “Nobody cried. The brain doesn’t work. China set up the system not only to force people to make the products, to make profit for the government, but also to change people’s minds. Brain change. There is no choice of religion, no choice of political view.”
He maintains that 3 million to 5 million people are still imprisoned for political reasons today — a figure rejected by Chinese officials who question Wu’s motives.
“I’m not aware of those numbers,” said Wang Baodong, spokesman of the Embassy of China in Washington. “This museum is politically motivated. It’s against China and the Chinese government. He hates the Chinese government.”
Wu was a geology student in Beijing who never had been involved in political activities when he was arrested in 1960 as a “counterrevolutionary rightist,” he said. He was forced to sign papers without reading them and taken to a labor camp, a chemical factory in Beijing.
“I had no choice; I signed it,” Wu recalled. “Until today, I do not know what was in that paper. They told me: ‘You’re sentenced to life.’ ”
Every day, twice a day, he was asked three questions that are now written on the black and red walls of the museum: “Who are you? What is this place? Why are you here?” The required answers: “I am a criminal. This is the Laogai. I am here to reform through labor.”
Wu said he worked 12 hours a day on farms and in coal mines and steel mills. Food was scarce, and he sometimes ate roots, snakes and frogs. He tried to commit suicide twice, refusing to eat while in solitary confinement. His weight plummeted to 80 pounds.
Throughout his imprisonment, he was allowed to write a one-page letter home every month. But he couldn’t say much to his parents and seven siblings.Police usually read the mail and censored any attempt to describe his life....”
scroll down for the humongous ant hill apartment bldgs...dehumanizing and controlling. Your ‘jobs’ will be assigned - and you will be bussed out to the fields to work?
Think not? Then give another explanation.
You're assuming that Chinese Christians would be satisfied with poverty as long as they have they have the freedom to worship? Is that something you would be satisfied with? Poverty is okay as long as freedom of religion is guranteed. Why not work towards both?
And though they can avoid supporting Venezuela by not buying their gasoline at CITGO or Valero, it is nearly impossible to find a station that guarantees their petrol is from say, Texas or the Gulf of Mexico
Ah, yes, well you realize government and consumers work hand in hand. The US government, if they really wanted to and consumers were willing to back this up, refuse to buy oil from Saudi Arabia and Venzeula. It could even be done with a gradual draw down instead of a sudden cut off of this oil. It would result in, of course, a gradual rise of gasoline prices. But it doesn't have to slow the economy down if its done slowly as other forms of alternative energy comes on line due to higher and higher gas prices. Higher oil prices would even facilitate more drilling on US soil.
However, most Americans and government officials are willing to compromise by buying from the Saudi's and Venezuela because.......it keeps a lid on the price of oil. So much for standing up to tyranny. Oh, and by the way, to help pay for this oil, did you know the US sells so many 4th generation fighters to Saudi Arabia, that the Saudi's have more 4th generation fighters in the military than Britain does? I read that somewhere but didn't verify it. But I feel confident enough that it is either true or very close to it. And Saudi Arabia is a very brutal oligarch.
When given the freedom to put my investment money where my conscience leads I will run from supporting or partnering financially with tyranny. Starting with the ChiComs.
Invest your money wherever you want. But don't forget, you call people treasonous when they do business with China. Yet, people who point fingers about China tend to be silent about buying oil from nations that are dictatorships or oligarchs. And don't bring it up as a treasonous act. Many who don't see this double standard think its because America can't do without their oil. But the reality, the US CAN do without their oil. Its just that energy prices are much cheaper with the Saudi's and Venezeulians in the picture.
Simple solution. Drill here drill now! I'd gladly pay more for a gallon of gasoline if I knew it was made in America. And I think telling the Saudis to take a flying leap until they improve their human rights issues would be a great economic motivator for them.
A clean conscience is a happy conscience.:)
Having a global outlook in trade and foreign policy does not equate to one having a view of a nationless world or a world without borders.
This thread was started by calling the govenor of Idaho treasonous. Yet that does not mean he believes in a borderless society. Rather, he is just being pragmatic about economics. Foreign ownership of domestic property has existed throughout history and throughout American history.
Trade and foreign ownership of domestic properties have existed throughout history and in countries with definite border settings.
US corporations own $4 trillion in overseas assets. Do you suggest those countries close off their borders and seize US properties?
A clean conscience is a happy conscience.:)
Well, I glad to hear you consistent. But in general, many Americans who take a hawkish view of China are not so consistent. In a way, I sort of understand it, but it doesn't justify it. And that is, China has the potential to challenge the US and countries like Saudi Arabia does not, despite their resources and China's lack of.
Even if I could convince those with anti-China sentiment that Chinese human rights is better than many of the countries the US deals with, that ultimately is not the issue. One only has to look at a youtube video where one of the Prince in Dubai tortured a Afghan businessman for hours simply because he cheated the Prince out of $5000. A Prince that is worth billions.
Yet, ultimately, that doesn't matter as these countries have resources that America needs. Its acceptable to buy from these countries, because no matter how opulent they are with their riches, they could never challenge the US for the top spot in the world. Not even close.
Resource poor China, on the other hand, potentially could. So, therein lies my frustration with so many who are hawkish about China and using the argument as some rogue communist dictatorship. The reality is, wherever China places in the global rankings of how they treats its citizens, there are obviously other countries that are far worse that the US deals with but doesn't get the same attention as China.
So, in the end, what is really happening, when people fret of dealing with China, is the resentment towards participating in building up another super power. And not so much fretting about other issues such as human rights, etc.
They may have Chinese communities set up within these zones, but they simply cannot operate outside of the legal jurisdiction of the US. And this is no different than foreigners owning property and businesses on US soil. They may own the companies, but they still have to follow US laws. That's why Westinghouse, which is now owned by the Japanese, had to get approval by Congress to sell the Chinese their latest reactor design.
The reality is, any company in the world who owns property in another country that is not their own, is at the mercy of the host country. Pure and simple. America has frozen assets of foreign entities, whether that foreign entity is a private or government entity. And likewise, American assets have been flat out taken away by host countries overseas (typically, when there is a revolution by a new government hostile to the US). We don't live in a one world government. So foreign assets only exists, when the countries are not at war. Once hostilities starts, all titles are torn up. Or at least nulled until things settle down.
There are many free trade zones already here in the US. The article itself stated there were already 257 of them. Yet, I doubt most people even know they exist. And I never hear anything about slavery. And if you noticed, there has been a heightened awareness of slavery in the US. They're typically brought in by wealthy immigrants as personal house slaves. Once discovered, the perpetrators are quickly arrested.
I have yet to hear people bring in slaves into these economic zones. How would you hide such a large workforce? Hiding a house servant in your home, yes, but large scale labor?
Free trade zones do operate outside of some regulatory requirement (I don't know which), but I am willing to bet, labor it not one of them. China cannot simply bring in $2/hr laborers here into the US.
Like the free traitor you are, you keep glossing over that it will be the Chinese communist government operating the slave labor economic zone in Idaho.
China is communist in name. It is increasingly becoming free market. However, politically, it is an oligarch. And America does alot of business with all sorts of oligarchs. Singapore, Saudi Arabia, The Emirates, etc. I'm absolutely convinced, China will become a democracy someday. Yet, ironically, even then, America will continue to have more issues with China than Saudi Arabia or the Emirates. Simply because China's economic reach is becoming larger.
Why do you hate this country so?
I don't hate this country at all. On the contrary, I appreciate being an American. I just don't equate free trade with treason the way you do. And I understand my US economic history. I know, that the standard of living in Amierca is much higher today than it was in the 1950's. And the 1950's, more Americans as a percentage of the workforce worked in manufacturing. Yet, today, we have biggers homes, more cars per capita, consume more energy per capita, etc. Many own vacation homes too. Trade hasn't hurt the US, it has actually helped.
China closed herself off to the world in 1949 and looked what happened to her. It wasn't until she expanded trade that she began to improve her situation.
“Underground church pastor sent to labor camp”
http://news.yahoo.com/underground-church-pastor-sent-china-labor-camp-102743072.html
The ChiComs continue their record of daily Human Rights abuses. Evil.
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