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Talk Radio Cannot Do This Alone (Rush:'...sell the Ryan plan')
Rush Limbaugh Online 5/25/2010 page Transcript ^ | 5/25/2010 | Rush Limbaugh

Posted on 05/25/2011 8:29:25 PM PDT by sickoflibs

RUSH: Let me tell you something, folks, on this New York 26 business and Paul Ryan's Medicare reform and the Republican budget -- and this cadre of spineless mainstream Republicans that we seem to have in Washington. Let me tell you what needs to happen: Before the end of this day, if any of them are serious about it. one or more of these Republican presidential candidates needs to call a press conference and stand up for the Ryan plan. We can't do it alone on talk radio. We can't do it. You are going to have to speak up. This is a moment -- maybe not "the" moment, but it is "a" moment, a test.

Is there somebody in the Republican Party willing to lead? Arthur pulled the sword out of the rock and became King Arthur. The Republican Party rallied almost in unison behind the Paul Ryan Medicare proposal -- and now one little election, and we find out where the spines in this party are. One little election in which the winner actually ripped Obama and criticized Obama and the Democrats for $500 billion in Medicare cuts. The winner did that, and they're trying to tell us this is a referendum on the Ryan Medicare proposal. We had a fraudulent, phony Tea Party candidate siphoning nine points away from the Republican candidate.

When Ryan announced this, there was -- it wasn't total, but there was -- a wide swath of the Republican Party, conservative, moderate, whatever that got behind it, because everybody knows we can't afford to keep going the way we are. So somebody took the first leadership step, Paul Ryan, now won election and now all of a sudden they want to abandon him. (interruption) You disagree with me on this, Snerdley? I'm just telling you: If it's worth defending when it came out -- if it's worth defending when Ryan announced it -- it's worth defending now. If opposing Obama was worth it when Ryan announced his Medicare reform, it's worth opposing Obama now, regardless the outcome of this election.

I don't care what the media is doing. This is a moment for a leader to stand up. Now, the leader might want to stand up and say, "I think the election shows that we've bitten too much off in one bite of Medicare." I would hope not. You just heard Paul Ryan say, "I'm confident that in the next 15 months the truth will get out there." How? We can't do it alone on talk radio, nor can he do it alone -- and he can't pull it off at town hall meetings alone. He's not gonna reach enough people. It is true that when he speaks to seasoned citizens groups, once they hear what the truth is they're for it. Because it doesn't affect 'em! There's not one seasoned citizen that's affected by the Ryan plan.

The Democrats are lying about this from sunup to sundown, and then some. Not one Medicare recipient will be affected by the Ryan plan. It's all down the road. Nothing unfair about it at all. If the party doesn't have the guts to stand up and stop this demagoguery now... (interruption) The little old lady going over the cliff? Yeah, I've seen the ad. Little old lady going...? I've seen the ad, yeah. It's a great opportunity for leadership, a great opportunity to somebody to stand up and do something about it. What would Netanyahu do? That seems to be the question of the day: What would Bibi Netanyahu do?

If Bibi Netanyahu was running the Republican Party and believed in the Ryan plan, what would he do? Now, I'm toll that the Speaker of the House, John Boehner, just tweeted: "Republican path to prosperity preserves and protects Medicare for retirees and future generations, leaves it completely unchanged for those 55 and over." Boehner also tweeted: "Washington Democrats' budget let's Medicare go bankrupt." Newt Gingrich is defending Ryan's plan now, I'm told. Somebody sees an opportunity here, as do I.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Chris Chocola, National Review Online, The Corner blog: "Political pundits will say that the Republican candidate for Congress in NY-26 lost because of Medicare. They’re wrong. This election was more of a referendum on a candidate’s ability to defend freedom than anything else. In NY-26, the Republican party nominated a fairly conservative establishment Republican in Jane Corwin, but an ex-Democrat named Jack Davis, running as a 'Tea-Party' candidate, siphoned votes from the Republican. The reason was not that Davis is obviously more conservative or because Corwin is not sufficiently conservative: It’s because Corwin did a terrible job articulating the free-market message, and Davis consistently demagogued the important issue of trade."

Now, this is a fundamental point, and there's one thing everybody better remember. Every elected Republican seeking reelection November 12 better remember one thing: The November elections of 2010 were not about you. Nobody voted for you. They voted against Democrats. You cannot expect to go into a campaign such as New York 26 and not have a message and expect to win simply because your opponent's a Democrat. Especially when the Democrats are desperate and they're gonna bring in a ringer, a fraudulent Tea Party guy to siphon Republican votes. Chocola's point is you better have a conservative message. It better be conservative. That's what wins. Just take a look Wisconsin. It wins every time it's tried, folks. And that sends chills down the spines of Republicans as well in Washington.

If any Republican running for office in 2012 cannot articulate, defend, explain, conservative principles, they're gonna lose. November 2010 was unique. That was an anti-Democrat, anti-Obama vote. And it could be on the national presidential level, could be the same thing in 2012, depending on the economy. But you start getting in these local congressional races and so forth, and it's gonna matter who you are, what you stand for, and you better not be bashful, and you'd better not be afraid of being conservative, and you'd better not be afraid of saying so, and you better be able to say so. Conservatism didn't get beat here.

Here's Mark in Buffalo. Great to have you on the program, sir. Hi.

CALLER: Rush, a great, great thrill to talk to you. I know that Snerdley can verify much of what I'm telling you. He's got some roots in this area, so I won't take up much of your time. I just wanted to tell you that the seat became available because as you may remember, Chris Lee gave up this seat when he was found to have posted semiclothed pictures of himself on --

RUSH: Right. I've got 30 seconds. I didn't read the clock right. Can you do it in 30 seconds?

CALLER: Right, right. The candidate that was presented was not a strong Republican. The Tea Party candidate was obviously not a Tea Party candidate, and the Democrat was a serious Dem. What ended up happening was the Republican ran a very poor kind of campaign --

RUSH: Exactly.

CALLER: -- and assumed that she was going to win --

RUSH: Exactly.

CALLER: -- because it's a fairly Republican district.

RUSH: Exactly, no reason to stick my neck out. No reason to really say, "I got this in the bag, country hates the Democrats." No reason for me to make myself a target. Right. I'm really reining it in here, folks, isn't gonna cut it.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: If you are a Republican running for office in 2012 and you are a conservative, be proud of it. Don't be bashful. Be able to defend conservatism. Be able to articulate it. Do it with energy, affection, excitement. It will carry you. Really no mystery here. But you can't get elected sitting around taking no chances, figuring everybody's gonna vote against the Democrats again.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Back to New York 26 here for just a second and to try to put things in perspective. The Republicans won that seat in 2008 by six points. When you combine the GOP and the phony Tea Party vote, they woulda won this time by five points after the Democrats poured millions of dollars into this election. Now, here's what they're saying at The Politico: "And for the first time since November, the idea that Democrats might have a shot at winning back the House is no longer a laughing matter." So you see, they are trying to reassure themselves that they are not in deep doo-doo, and they are in deep doo-doo. Now that the New York election is safely stolen, the Obama people are claiming they were behind it.

From The Politico: "Team Obama helped Hochul ... Organizing for America, played a significant supporting role in efforts to amp turnout for Kathy Hochul." Okay, now that they've stole the election, the regime is saying, "Hey, we did it, we did it, we did it." And I just reiterate this one more time before moving on. If you are Republican and if you are going to seek reelection you better be able to explain conservatism happy and with confidence, and you better not be afraid to do so. You can't sit around and think that the Democrat candidate is gonna be voted against and that you're gonna be the beneficiary of that and you can basically not ruffle any feathers. You're going to have to ruffle the media feathers. The media is gonna get ruffled, you can't escape it.

And as another aside for the Republican Party at large, it is clear that they are scared to death of Paul Ryan's Medicare proposal, they are scared to death of it. Is there any leadership, is there anybody in the Republican Party willing to come out today publicly, loudly and proudly and defend your own budget? We can't do it all on talk radio. It's a great opportunity for some leadership to surface here. It's a great opportunity for somebody. You can see what the Democrats are thinking of this in the media today and what they have at stake here. The temptation, "Let it go, you know, special election, odd, weird, New York 26. Rush, we don't even want to mention it, people are gonna forget about this by tomorrow, it's no big --" no, they're not. The media is not gonna forget about it. The narrative, the template is being written even as we speak.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Bremerton, Washington, next and Jason. Great to have you with us, sir. Hi.

CALLER: Hi, Rush. Let me just add you a little bit to what you were saying earlier about the New York race. Related to that race, the reason that it was lost -- and we will lose other races in the future -- is the fact that Republicans have very few candidates or members of the House that can speak coherently about issues, or in this case either the Ryan Medicare plan or the Ryan budget. The Democrat scare machine is effective. The Republican counter to that, which would be facts, isn't. They just back away with their tail stuck between their legs. My proof is the fact that a majority of the members of Congress can't even speak to what the Ryan Medicare plan is, what it does, or what the Ryan budget does, and I can go on.

RUSH: Well, now, wait just a second. I need to ask you how you know that --

CALLER: I watch 'em on TV. They sit there and look dumbfounded, go back to their talking points.

RUSH: But you've seen over half the Republicans...?

CALLER: All they do is stand behind Paul Ryan and look like little bobble heads.

RUSH: No. No, no.

CALLER: If you were to ask them what is in the plan they would give you a deer-in-the-headlights look.

RUSH: No, I'm talking numbers. You're saying that 150 Republicans in the House do not know or 120 do not know?

CALLER: They do not know the issue front-to-back, left to right, up or down. They can go to various talking points, but they don't know what the whole issue or what they support is. They do not speak in a coherent manner.

RUSH: Now, where you getting this?

CALLER: It's my observation.

RUSH: Your observation. Well, I know that the Tea Party candidates all can.

CALLER: Well, there aren't very many of those.

RUSH: Well, there's 59 of 'em.

CALLER: I would like 59 Chris Christies.

RUSH: Well, I'm not here to throw cold water on anybody. I understand there's a great deal of excitement for Governor Christie.

CALLER: I'm just speaking from a being able to articulate what they are speaking about.

RUSH: Well, if they can't it's a problem. It's the clear route to victory: Conservatism, artfully spoken, passionately promoted, confidently expressed. I'll tell you something. It's always easier to just make up lies, like the Democrats do, rather than try to explain a complex piece of legislation. You know, 99% of the Democrat playbook is made up of scare tactics. "If you don't do X, then Y will happen," and usually that means your death. You're gonna die. That's the Democrat playbook. Just fill in the blanks, and you've got their strategy. They never take the substance of anything on. They just claim it's gonna kill you. That's what the Democrats do, and explaining facts is a little bit more complicated than that -- and sometimes if you're not very good at it, it can sound boring at the same time. That's why being able to articulate conservatism philosophically is fundamental here. That's fun. That's -- and it's enlightening to a lot of people. Now, here's Dingy Harry just to show you how the Democrats are making hay out of this today. This afternoon he had a little press conference to talk about New York 26.

REID: (shutter clicks throughout) Last night the people of America resoundingly spoke in rejecting the Republican plan to end Medicare as we know it. This is New York's 26th district. Now, the question to my Republican colleagues is basically this -- it's very simple -- Will you listen to the American people? Because their message could not be clearer. There's been a Republican victory for decades, at least four decades. This belonged to Jack Kemp. Just six months ago the congressional district went Republican by a three-to-one margin, but it changed last night. Why? Because the number one, two, and three issue in that congressional district as it is all over the country is destroying Medicare as we know it, putting insurance companies between patients and their physicians.

RUSH: Oh-ho, man. From the party that is destroying Medicare, from the party that is destroying private sector health care comes Harry Reid lying through his teeth. Nothing could be further from the truth than what he said here. New York's 26th district is being portrayed here as the American people and that Medicare reform -- Paul Ryan's budget -- was on the ballot. The winning candidate -- I'm gonna get blue in the face saying this. The winning candidate criticized Obama and the Democrats for $500 billion in Medicare cuts. The winning candidate. You might say that a conservative message did win. It just wasn't articulated by the Republican. The Democrat won by four points with a fraudulent Tea Party candidate in the race. The Democrats did not even win the majority. "Resounding vote," my rear end! They didn't win a majority in this. It's why it's not time to panic. Scott in Rockford, Illinois. Great that you called, sir. Welcome to the EIB Network.

CALLER: Hi, Rush. Pleasure speaking with you.

RUSH: Thank you.

CALLER: I was curious of what your thoughts were on why our vice president isn't taking over going down to Missouri when Obama's off doing whatever he's doing.

RUSH: I have no idea.

CALLER: (chuckles)

RUSH: I don't think Biden knows, either. My guess is they probably don't trust sending him.

CALLER: Yeah, that's true.

RUSH: You know, what's he gonna say when he gets there? I really do think that they try to rein the guy in. He's a walking gaffe.

CALLER: Yeah. (chuckles)

RUSH: And he tries to make jokes, he tries to be funny. This is not the place or the time for this kind of thing. I really think there's an effort to keep him sort of sequestered.

CALLER: Yeah, I kind of believe that because I think he should be down there.

RUSH: Well, he is not. I don't think the people of Joplin are saying, "Where's the Vice President?" I don't think the people of Joplin are running around, "Hey, where's Joe Biden? Gosh, I wish Joe Biden was here!" In addition to that, Obama's not gonna allow himself to be upstaged on this. He's gonna swoop in there on Sunday like Superman and save the day. Ann in Buffalo, New York -- this is near New York 26, by the way -- it's great to have you on the program.

CALLER: Thanks for taking my call. I just wanted to say this about our election yesterday. That election boiled down to this. It was a vote to support the Obama agenda in Washington or it was a vote basically against it and for our constitutional republic. It was not stated that way. I worked on the Jane Corwin campaign. They gave us sheets of paper to read on the phone when we called somebody. I finally just stopped saying that, and I finally started telling people, "This election boils down to either you're gonna put another vote in Washington to support the Obama agenda or you're gonna send somebody there who may actually bring forward a conservative vote."

RUSH: Now, wait a second. What did they have you saying?

CALLER: They had us saying, "Can we count on your support for Jane?" Or, if people would ask us questions, then we would read bullet points off the the sheet.

RUSH: Okay, so let me get this straight. You're on the phone bank --

CALLER: Yes.

RUSH: -- and you're calling out and you're trying to get people to vote.

CALLER: Yes.

RUSH: You're trying to get 'em to the polls --

CALLER: That's it.

RUSH: -- and number one on the list, "Can we count on your support for Jane?"

CALLER: Yes.

RUSH: That's number one?

CALLER: Yes.

RUSH: And then after that, it was up to them to ask questions before you would provide any substance?

CALLER: Not me! (bursts out laughing)

RUSH: No, but I mean the instructions.

CALLER: Yes.

RUSH: The instructions that you got.

CALLER: Yeah. If the person had questions, I would say, "Do you have any questions about this?" because they would either say, "Yes, you can count on support" or, "No," and I would say, "Have you got any questions?" and if they asked a question, I could go directly to the conservative point.

RUSH: Okay. So you

CALLER: But she didn't think.

RUSH: You went improv on anybody.

CALLER: Yeah.

RUSH: You said, "Let me tell you what this election's about."

CALLER: Yeah.

RUSH: You went off the page.

CALLER: Yes.

RUSH: See I told you, Snerdley.

CALLER: That's it exactly, Rush. If this is gonna be another McCain in 2012 work if they put a candidate up there that sounds like a politician, acts like a politician, and does not come down as a conservative person who believes in what he's saying.

RUSH: See, this is the mainstream Republican mind-set: Anti-conservative, afraid to articulate the conservative point of view. (interruption) Well, 'cause I know who the... "How do I always know these things?" I just know what people stand for and what they're afraid of. In this case the Republicans are afraid of conservatism, so they're not gonna have their phone bank people say anything about it.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: I've spent some time here delving into and digging deep into this New York 26, and I must issue you people an apology. If I were Japanese, I would resign, as a matter of honor 'cause I have committed a grave disservice by being entirely ignorant. I mean, I really did not know that this election was taking place. I really didn't know. I gotta do a Herman Cain here. He said he didn't know what the "right of return" was. I did not know this election was taking place, and I apologize profusely and profoundly. (interruption) Well, "It's my job, man," to know these things. It's my business, Snerdley, to know these things, and on this occasion I just didn't know.

But nevertheless, nonetheless, I have now taken time to dig deep and delve into this -- and it's clear what the mistakes were. And I want to thank you, Snerdley, for storming in here. I was having lunch, and he didn't care. I mean, he was fuming. Spittle very nearly ended up on my desk. He came storming over. I thought you were a caller! The media was being unfair. Media this, media that. Snerdley was ready to cash it in, just quit. "All right, fine! Forget Medicare reform. Let it go broke and let people find out," and a lot of his anger was focused at the media, which I really... I don't have any patience for people mad at the media because it's like being mad at the sun for coming up."

I mean it's who they are, and they're not going to change, and I know: I hate arrogance, and I hate liars, and I hate people lying about me and all it is, but it is what it is. At some point, it can't be an excuse. There are ways to work around it. We win elections despite them so it's possible to do, obviously. In this case, whoever strategized this blew it, and that leads me to another thing that is not gonna ingratiate me here with party apparatchiks. You know, we've got the political consultants on our side who think they know how to win races. They don't want any part of the Christine O'Donnell race -- and, by the way, Christine O'Donnell did just as well as Meg Whitman did in California, percentage-wise. The people running Meg Whitman's race did just as bad as Christine O'Donnell.

I kid you not. She got shellacked just as badly as O'Donnell did on a percentage basis. It wasn't even close. But of course you never hear it said that way. But the couple times fight for the 20%. The consultants fight for moderates. There wasn't any conservatism in this message. In fact, if this race had been nationalized rather than localized? The consultants probably said, "Okay, here we got Jack Kemp's district. We got a district goes Republicans, so okay, we got that. That's a checkmark. That's one of our strengths. We don't need to do anything 'cause we've got that." So they focused on again going out and getting the 20%, whatever it is, 25% moderates, which means you deemphasize conservatism.

This is my problem with consultancy: They deemphasize the strength. They also deemphasize the strength 'cause they don't like it. Conservatism in the Republican Party, it's got its enemies, as we have long discussed and well documented here. But if this race had been nationalized, if the dirty tricks had been addressed, if the candidate had been able to articulate what Paul Ryan's budget is, this would have been entirely different story -- and those are ifs that are relevant because those are things that coulda changed. Now, the Democrats had the phony Tea Party guy in there, and it is important to say, the Democrats did not win this with their ideas.

The Democrats did not win this with liberal ideas. Liberal ideas were not on the ballot; liberal ideas did not triumph here. The Democrats had to go in and lie and defraud and cheat, they had to have a phony Tea Party guy to confuse voters, you know, classic dirty tricks. Liberalism didn't win -- and this is why cautioning everybody not to be so down in the dumps about this. The reason to be alarmed is this continuing, ongoing reluctance on the part of inside the Beltway, establishment Republicans to go conservative. That is a problem. But let me contrast this for you. Here's Harry Reid (we just played the sound bite) and, of course, he's going to say it, but let's examine it rationally.

He said that New York race proves the nation wants more Obama and Reid policies, wants more Obamacare, wants more liberalism. Fine, Senator Reid. Where is your Medicare plan? Where is your budget? If the country wants more of what you have to offer, why don't you offer it? The Democrats have yet to present a formal budget for this year, and this year will expire at the end of September. They haven't presented a thing. All they're doing is saying "no" and lying about what the Republican plans are. You know, I could go all Civics 101 on you and say that the Republicans are the ones who are actually trying to tackle the problems, and they are -- just like Bush tried to tackle Social Security, and we know what happened.

He gave up on it 'cause it was being demagogued to death, but there's a reason. I was all for it, by the way. I thought it was a bold step, and what he was going to do was not that dramatic. It was typical. It was what the Democrats are saying should be now, and what the Republicans are saying we should do now to Medicare. It was phase-in. It wasn't one big bite. But it still got demagogued all to hell, just like this is being demagogued all to hell. So the question comes down to what do you do? We have a problem that's breaking our bank, it's going bankrupt, and we can't afford it for much longer.

Do we solve it? Come up with a plan, take the plan out and say, "Here's the plan, we gotta fix this," or do we not do that because that's making us too big a target and it's guaranteed to lose, so let's just forget it? The theory being we have to win elections and we can't win elections by reforming entitlements. Third rail. We'll get electrocuted; we're gonna die; we just have to -- can't do it. If the party goes that way, you can kiss the Tea Party good-bye and say, "Hello, third party." If the Republican Party bails on tackling these things, the Tea Party will just vanish as an element of the Republican Party. It's "Hello, third party," and that's, you know, "Welcome back, Obama."

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Columbus, Ohio. This is Bob, you're you up next on the EIB Network. Hello.

CALLER: Hey, conservative Cincinnati [dittos] to you, Rush.

RUSH: Thank you, sir, very much.

CALLER: I was calling with a point to make about Harry Reid you were discussing earlier how he didn't interpret the New York votes -- or he did interpret the New York vote -- as a national mandated against Medicare reform.

RUSH: That's right.

CALLER: But he did not interpret Scott Brown's senatorial victory in the Democratic Mecca of Massachusetts as a national referendum.

RUSH: Of course not, nor did he interpret what happened in Wisconsin as a national referendum against public and state unions.

CALLER: Exactly. What about the interpretation of the 2010 election against deficit spending? I mean, I guess his interpreting skills are selective.

RUSH: No, it's just classic. It's propaganda; it's the spin. It's what the Democrats do. Harry goes out and says it; it becomes a story in the media. The Democrats turn it into a story, and the headline to the story, "Reid: New York 26 proves America doesn't want Ryan health care reform," then they go out and interview economists and experts about it, and they'll get people that agree, and that's how the Democrats create a news story. He's the Senate majority leader -- and then they create a news story and then it goes to the AP and then you got a headline that ends up in every American newspaper and on every American radio news network. Whether it's true or not, this is how they do it. This is how they make news: With lies and misrepresentations. It's just one of the realities we're always gonna have.

END TRANSCRIPT


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: broke; debt; deficit; medicare; obama; palin; ryanplan
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; sickoflibs
"In my opinion, chances are slim to none of any fiscally responsible entitlement reform becoming law in the next couple of years, although they might pass something that claims to be such. And politicians who propose entitlement reform are a great risk of giving their opponents a terrible political weapon (that's why Obama's COMMISSION ON FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY AND REFORM used retired politicians like Simpson)."
DITTOS. And few are prepared to actually enact the crossing of the Rubicon.
61 posted on 05/28/2011 1:33:14 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned....Duncan Hunter Sr. for POTUS.)
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To: Marine_Uncle; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; GailA; stephenjohnbanker
RE :””In my opinion, chances are slim to none of any fiscally responsible entitlement reform becoming law in the next couple of years, although they might pass something that claims to be such. And politicians who propose entitlement reform are a great risk of giving their opponents a terrible political weapon (that's why Obama’s COMMISSION ON FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY AND REFORM used retired politicians like Simpson).”
DITTOS. And few are prepared to actually enact the crossing of the Rubicon.

True but they didn't have to pitch then vote on a plan that was guaranteed to fail, unless that is what they wanted. The specifics of this plan don't even make any sense, let alone being politically acceptable. Imagine 2021 and the first seniors retire that are affected, so those born in 1956 or 1957 get to go out there and buy insurance competing with those born before that age that are part of a huge medicare negotiating pool. What did the plan pitch that changes things (market wise) so this first year retirees are any better off than the uninsured at 64?

It is not a rational phased in approach to privatization that should start now for all new retires (born after 1946 not after 1956) , It is just throwing some off the ship because of the year they are born to get the others support 10 years from now when they are no longer in office , justifying it by repeating "we are broke".

I cant imagine what they were thinking. Maybe they like being out of power and responsibility, it is more fun for them I will admit. Then in the minority in 2014 they can try to say "I told you so".

62 posted on 05/28/2011 7:32:46 PM PDT by sickoflibs (If you pay zero Federal income taxes, don't say you are paying your 'fair share')
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To: sickoflibs; Marine_Uncle; GailA; stephenjohnbanker
Imagine 2021 and the first seniors retire that are affected, so those born in 1956 or 1957 get to go out there and buy insurance competing with those born before that age that are part of a huge medicare negotiating pool.

I believe that the Ryan Plan had some kind of pools for those who don't stay on the old medicare plan, but these pools seem to be based on state laws. These would be smaller than the national medicare pool, but would potentially have the cost advantage (depending on what each state does) of not having to follow Obamacare's one-size-fits-all coverage and Kathleen Sebelius's thousands of pages of regulations that she is still writing.

But it won't become law.

63 posted on 05/28/2011 8:59:47 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Budget sins can be fixed. Amnesty is irreversible.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Marine_Uncle; GailA; stephenjohnbanker
RE :”I believe that the Ryan Plan had some kind of pools for those who don't stay on the old medicare plan, but these pools seem to be based on state laws. These would be smaller than the national medicare pool, but would potentially have the cost advantage (depending on what each state does) of not having to follow Obamacare’s one-size-fits-all coverage and Kathleen Sebelius’s thousands of pages of regulations that she is still writing.

As far as I know Obama-care did not totally replace medicare, there are some changes and cuts for those over 65 but they are not nearly as dramatic as the Obama-care changes to those under 65, Basic Medicare is already single payer, you cant get that much more regulated than it is.

But those in that first ‘pool’ that were born in that year 1956 would have it pretty tough because they would be alone. My proof? Because Ryan is going to those born in 1955 and before and say “you should support this reform because you are exempt from it.” just like Obama-care exempts some politically. If Obama's current plans for medicare are so much worse, why is the voting carrot to those born earlier that they will stay in it?

64 posted on 05/28/2011 9:22:14 PM PDT by sickoflibs (If you pay zero Federal income taxes, don't say you are paying your 'fair share')
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To: sickoflibs
If Obama's current plans for medicare are so much worse, why is the voting carrot to those born earlier that they will stay in it?

Of course, the media thinks that Obamacare with corrupt waivers and bloated bureaucracy is heaven on earth, but even without such a tilting of the game, it was predictable that voters would be nervous about whatever specific entitlement reform plan came out first.

Nothing really makes sense when those who are going to be swindled out of their money withheld from their pay specifically labeled for the entitlements that money is supposed to pay for, no matter which party gets its way. I don't think Obamacare is popular either. Both Obamacare and Ryancare play accounting tricks (for example, I think Ryancare assumes that the cost of medical care won't rise faster than inflation!). I think some voters will figure out how dishonest Obamacare was. But Obama was more diabolically clever than the GOP, and at this moment, Ryancare has taken some of the voters' wrath from Obamacare.

65 posted on 05/29/2011 12:19:46 AM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Budget sins can be fixed. Amnesty is irreversible.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Marine_Uncle; GailA; stephenjohnbanker
Gov Palenty was on ABC today and said he has his own plan, but when pressed said he'd vote for the Ryan plan if it and Obama-care were the only two options. That was smart talking political wise. Of course the host didnt want to know how he would fix medicare, instead she phrased the questions to ask “What would you do different from Ryan's plan?”, notice the media wants that the issue.

The should have come up with a plan that phases in changes for everyone (age wise) getting medicare starting at passage. And it should have a voluntary aspect to it (as I suggested before) so average Americans who worked and paid many hundreds of thousands of dollars of federal taxes dont feel like they are thrown out of the passenger airplane, the one that they had to pay for that others are riding in, just because they were born too late. Let the retired consumer decide if he personally wants Obama death panels or not.

66 posted on 05/29/2011 8:19:58 AM PDT by sickoflibs (If you pay zero Federal income taxes, don't say you are paying your 'fair share')
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To: sickoflibs

Or here ILLEGALLY!


67 posted on 05/29/2011 11:10:05 AM PDT by GailA (NO DEMOCRATS or RINOS in 2012!)
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To: sickoflibs

It’s like walking on very thin ice in the middle of a large lake. With no one around to pull one out.


68 posted on 05/29/2011 1:25:03 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned....Duncan Hunter Sr. for POTUS.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Marine_Uncle; GailA; stephenjohnbanker

This mini-discussion we were having relates to the future retiree personal perspective on this bill, as well as designing a reform proposal that does do go up into flames. But there is the other side to it, the somewhat hidden side.

Those other two freepers, one on this thread and the one on the other thread, were making a moral argument for the Ryan plan that went: ‘Why should anyone have to pay taxes to pay for anyone else’s health care(unless they were born before 1956) , even for a retiree that was forced to pay taxes to pay for other’s health care?(apparently born after 1956)’ They made the argument that if someone (born after 1956 apparently) doesnt save enough for their health care when they get old, why is that anyone else’s responsibility to do it? (And BTW :There is such thing as long term health care insurance, I know all about seniors options.) Then I threw out some unpleasant graphics to illustrate exactly what that would mean.

The problem is that this is NOT their argument. They are making the argument that they are ‘saving medicare’. If the above is the real argument than they shouldnt say they are ‘saving’ it. That is the part that annoys me the most.

Plus the whole 10 year delay thing ruins that moral argument anyway.


69 posted on 05/29/2011 1:31:02 PM PDT by sickoflibs (If you pay zero Federal income taxes, don't say you are paying your 'fair share')
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To: sickoflibs

Understand. Thanks.


70 posted on 05/29/2011 1:45:28 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned....Duncan Hunter Sr. for POTUS.)
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To: sickoflibs

Entitlements are like benefits to some government union workers. If you make them unsustainable, any kind of reform will evoke resentment among those who would have collected those same benefits. In some cases, paying union dues is a requirement for employment.

The difference is that reforming union benefits won’t affect everyone. At least not unless some future federal government makes us all union members.


71 posted on 05/30/2011 7:17:19 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Budget sins can be fixed. Amnesty is irreversible.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
RE :”Entitlements are like benefits to some government union workers. If you make them unsustainable, any kind of reform will evoke resentment among those who would have collected those same benefits. In some cases, paying union dues is a requirement for employment

Or like a ponzi scheme where eventually someone will get screwed and others earlier are the big winners, But that plan contradicts itself by making such a clear discontinuity between winners and losers. Another point, I dont like bills that dont take effect until those that passed them are out of office. It's cowardly. Like most of Obama-care in 2014.

I was visiting a relative in his 80s today for the holiday, every week it seems he has a doctor story about some new problem, I naturally ask if medicare pays for each and it does, he was also complaining about the free electric wheelchair medicare bought him. He is very lucky, a good part of his career was before SS raised FICA taxes in the 1980s.

72 posted on 05/30/2011 7:35:00 PM PDT by sickoflibs (If you pay zero Federal income taxes, don't say you are paying your 'fair share')
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To: sickoflibs
Or like a ponzi scheme where eventually someone will get screwed and others earlier are the big winners,

If crooks (not including the government) run a ponzi scheme, those who lose their money kiss it goodbye. When it's the government, those who lost money expect the government to change the laws of economy. And the government is likely to do just that, by printing money.

73 posted on 05/30/2011 8:14:23 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Budget sins can be fixed. Amnesty is irreversible.)
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