Skip to comments.Tea Party Patriots Org strikes Libertarian Iceberg...
Posted on 02/18/2011 10:20:56 PM PST by TCH
The "unsinkable" TPP Org has struck a Libertarian iceberg... The once mighty vessel of patriot pride is fast taking on water--its funding dropping below the surface, and its members quickly abandoning the sinking ship... What happened?
No country, no government, no societyand no individualmay claim for themselves the authority to divorce morality from government. While individual human beings each possesses free will to choose right from wrong, yet none may ever claim a "right" to choose wrong, no matter the circumstance.
Morality and civics are inseparable. Both are requisite aspects of the temporal order, as ordained by Divine authority. Each requires the cooperation and spirited participation of the other; else chaos and societal collapse soon prevail. Human society is only as good as the individuals that form its lesser parts. If in any culture the individual actors are morally corrupt in some particular way, then those faults will begin to overshadow and eventually seduce the society as a whole. Under such conditions the government of that society must fall, for government is no more than a composite of the individual parts.
The Tea Party Patriots Organization (TPP) have promoted or condoned a moral indifference towards principals that are fundamental within the greater conservative movement. TPP leadership, acting in union with members of its lesser hierarchy, has sought through deeds of commission and omission, to foment resistance to objective cultural norms of behavior. Their rationale is that moral imperatives must be subordinate to fiscal concerns. However, this reasoning is diametrically opposite to the truth: principled objective morality is necessary to right any magnitude of fiscal chaos. Prudence, and regard for the right order of human society, demands that we not ignore Divinely ordained restraints on personal and public behavior. History proves that the root cause of national distress is always moral bankruptcy of the culture. Without exception, moral bankruptcy precipitates financial collapse, and therefore objective norms of morality must take precedence in civil deliberations, no matter the context. History consistently teaches this axiom:
"But what is liberty without wisdom, and without virtue? It is the greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness, without tuition or restraint." Edmund Burke
"Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith." Alexis de Tocqueville
"The fool who has not sense to discriminate between what is good and what is bad is well nigh as dangerous as the man who does discriminate and yet chooses the bad." Theodore Roosevelt
A Catholic attorney correctly summarized the failings of the libertarian philosophy thus:
"Libertarianism has to do with maximum individual freedom, without restraint or limitation. The libertarian principle is thus antithetical to the concept of morality. This is not to say that individual libertarians are not moral people; but they are moral people only insofar as they are acting inconsistently with libertarianism. They are good folks because they are bad libertarians.
"Edmund Burke understood quite that liberty not license, but true liberty was connected to moral order, to the linking of people together by the bonds of custom, tradition, religion, fellow-feeling and virtue. Absent those qualities, individuals are incapable of governing themselves and the state must rise to provide order and security for the populace.
"Burke's point is that morality embraced by the individual but also reflected in the public institutions and laws of a given culture must have a role in the public square, otherwise tyranny will lurk at the door until an opening arises. Libertarianism makes this situation more likely, not less. Rather than being a guard against tyranny, libertarianism makes the collapse of freedom more likely, not less, by replacing liberty with license and eroding the connections between people that are essential for both personal and private morality.
"In this, libertarianism shows forth its origins as an ideological movement, grounded not in the preservation of rights and duties traditionally understood, but rather the dogmatic erosion of civic community and social order necessary for the concepts of rights and duties to exist within the interactions of human beings with each other.
"The entire idea of libertarianism is self-refuting. Again, this is not to say that individual libertarians are incapable of virtue or devoid of moral conduct. It is to say that insofar as they are virtuous and moral, it is because they are not really libertarians."
So, the national leadership of TPPand some of its lesser hierarchychose to shun transcendent moral imperatives in favor of fiscal conservatismlibertarianism by any other name. Time-tested principles of objective reality are not open to subjective criticism. Situational ethics does not serve a society well, no matter that it wraps itself in patriotic garments. The irony of TPPs stand is that to abandon those principles for political necessity will only work to embolden those individuals whose bad actions would precipitate further fiscal disruptions!
For reason of an uncertain numerical advantage, which TPP imagines will restore our supposed republican virtue of free market capitalism, conservatives are asked to remain complacent to a further subversion of Americas cultural moresthose limits that constitute the very requisites for ordered libertyand thus prosperity. How then shall our markets be free, if they are premised to operate without a public bulwark of moral restraint? By such rationale slavery and human trafficking must have free reign, for they might serve some sector of the free market.
In the final measure, this action of moral severance, advanced by TPP National and their lesser parts, while calculated to gain a tactical lead over those who desire our enslavement, yet will prove to impose further bondage on American society, because such severance fails to recognize and uphold the immutable laws prescribed by the Divine author of all human society. In effect, TPP would kill the spirit that the body may live; but without the animating moral spirit, the body dies. I came to give you lifeand more abundantly We have but two choices before us: eternal life and eternal death. Choose life.
The failure of an allegedly "conservative" and patriotic organization to uphold objective moral principle, pretending some higher goal commands the greater loyalty, is intellectually dishonest at best. It is obvious that a fatal flaw in discernment exists at some level of TPPs leadership. It is also evident that this error, left unchecked and unchallenged, will affect a pernicious influence upon individual members within TPP groupsand upon the TEA Party movement in general.
To be sure, repeated efforts were undertaken by those of us in the movement who recognize the flaw of moral severance, and further understand that true liberty requires a moral foundation. However, our labor, to address these fundamental principles and explain their importance to the stated mission of TPP, went ignored or rebuked.
Concerning the Titanic, legend has it that one unfortunate passenger dared remark "God Himself could not sink this ship!" Not much has changed in the way of hubris. Too many still believe they may shun God's Law with impunity. "Unsinkable," indeed... Those who steer the ship of TPP take note--God is not mocked.
Here is what a country can expect when her citizens dismiss moral civility in society (Note the date of the interview):
Soviet Subversion of the Free Press (Ideological subversion, Destabilization, CRISIS - and the KGB)
Edward Griffin and Yuri Bezmenov ^ | 1984 | Edward Griffin and Yuri Bezmenov
Posted on 10/01/2008 2:09:45 PM PDT by LomanBill
“Yuri Bezmenov on demoralization” Interview with Yuri Bezmenov (ex-KGB) by Edward Griffin - 1984
This shocking video transcription exposes KGB’s subversive tactics against western society. In this interview, Yuri Bezmenov explains how Marxist ideology is deconstructing America’s values, destabilizing the economy, and provoking crises in order to sovietize the free world.
ED GRIFFIN: (introduces Mr. Bezmenov)
Our conversation is with Yuri Alexandrovic Bezmenov. Mr. Bezmenov was born in 1939 in a suburb of Moscow. He was the son of a high ranking Soviet Army officer. He was educated in the elite schools inside the Soviet Union; and became an expert in Indian culture and Indian languages.
He had an outstanding career with Novosti, which was, and still is I should say, the press arm or press agency of the Soviet Union; it turns out this is also a front, for the KGB.
He escaped to the West in 1970 after becoming totally disgusted with the Soviet system; and he did this at great risk to his life. He certainly is one of the worlds outstanding experts on the subject of Soviet propaganda; and disinformation and active measures.
Well, you spoke before about “ideological subversion” and that’s a phrase that I’m afraid some Americans don’t understand. When the Soviets use the phrase “ideological subversion” what do they mean by it?
1. Ideological subversion is the process which is [a] legitimate, old word, and open. You can see it with your own eyes. All American mass media has to do is to “unplug bananas” from their ears, open up their eyes, and they can see it. There is no mystery.
It has nothing to do with espionage. I know that espionage intelligence gathering looks more romantic. It sells more deodorants through the advertising. That’s probably why your Hollywood producers are so crazy about James Bond types of films. But in reality the main emphasis of the KGB is NOT in the area of intelligence at all.
According to my opinion, and the opinions of many defectors of my caliber, only about 15% of time, money, and manpower is spent on espionage as such. The other 85% is a slow process which we call either ideological subversion, active measures, or psychological warfare. What it basically means is: to change the perception of reality of every American that despite of the abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interest of defending themselves, their families, their community, and their country.
It’s a great brainwashing process which goes very slow and is divided into four basic stages.
The first stage being “demoralization”. It takes from 15 to 20 years to demoralize a nation. Why that many years? Because this is the minimum number of years required to educate one generation of students in the country of your enemy exposed to the ideology of [their] enemy. In other words, Marxism-Leninism ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of at least 3 generation of American students without being challenged or counterbalanced by the basic values of Americanism; American patriotism.
Most of the activity of the department [KGB] was to compile huge amount / volume of information, on individuals who were instrumental in creating public opinion. Publisher, editors, journalists, uh actors, educationalists, professors of political science. Members of parliament, representatives of business circles.
Most of these people were divided roughly into two groups: those who would tow the Soviet foreign policy, they would be promoted to positions of power through media and public manipulation; [and] those who refuse the Soviet influence in their own country would be character assassinated OR executed physically, come Revolution.
Same way as in a small town of Hua in South Vietnam; several thousands of Vietnamese were executed in one night when the city was captured by [the] Viet Cong for only two days; and American CIA could never figure out - how could [the communists] possibly know each Individual, where he lives, where to get him; and [in order that they] would be arrested in one night basically in four hours before dawn, put on a van, driven out of the city limits and shot.
The answer is very simple. Long before communists occupy the city, there was extensive network of informers; local Vietnamese citizens who knew absolutely everything about people who are instrumental in public opinion - including Barbers and Taxi Drivers. Everyone who was sympathetic to United States was executed. Same thing was done under the guidance of the Soviet Embassy in Hanoi, and same thing I was doing in New Delhi. To my horror, I discovered that in the files were people who were doomed to execution. There were names of pro-Soviet Journalists, with whom I was personally friendly.
Yes, absolutely. They were idealistically minded leftist communists who had made several visits to the USSR; and yet the KGB decided, that come Revolution, or drastic changes in political structure of India - they will have to go.
Why is that?
Because they know too much. Simply, because, you see the useful idiots; the leftists who are idealistically believing in the beauty of Soviet or Communist or Socialist or whatever system; when they get disillusioned, they become the worst enemies. That’s why my KGB instructors specifically made the point, “never bother with leftists, forget about these political prostitutes - aim higher” this was my instruction. Try to get into, uh, large circulation, established conservative media. Reach filthy rich movie makers, intellectuals in so-called academic circles. Cynical, ego-centric people who can look into your eyes with angelic expression and tell you a lie. This are the most recruitable people; people who lack moral principals - who are either too greedy or too, uh, suffer from self-importance, uh, they feel that they matter a lot. Uh, these are the people who KGB wanted very much to recruit.
But to eliminate the others; to execute the others, don’t they serve some purpose - wouldn’t they be the one’s to rely on?
No they serve purpose only [up] to the stage of destabilization of a nation. For example, your leftists in [the] United States; all these professors and all these beautiful civil rights defenders. They are instrumental in the process of the subversion; only to destabilize a nation. When the job is completed, they are not needed anymore. They know too much. Some of them, when they get disillusioned - when they see that Marxist-Leninist come to power. Obviously they get offended; they think that THEY will come to power. That will never happen, of course; they will be lined up against the wall and shot. But they may turn into the most bitter enemies of Marxist-Leninists when they come to power; and that’s what happened in Nicaragua. You remember most of these former Marxist-Leninists were either put to prison or one of them split and now he’s working against the Sandinistas
It happened in Grenada when Maurice Bishop, he was already a Marxist - he was executed by the new Marxists who was more Marxist than this Marxist.
Same happened in Afghanistan, when, uh, first there was Taraki he was killed by Amin, then Amin was killed by Karmal with the help of KGB.
Same happened in Bangladesh where Mujibur Rahman, very pro-soviet leftist; was assassinated by his own Marxist-Leninist military comrades.
It’s the same pattern everywhere. The moment they serve their purpose, all the useful idiots are either executed entirely; all the idealistically minded Marxists. Or exiled, or put in prisons like in Cuba many former Marxists are in Cuba, and in prison.
So basically America is Stuck, with demoralization; and unless, even if you start right now this minute; you start educating new generation of Americans - it will still take you 15 to 20 years to turn the tide of uh, ideological perception of reality; uh back to normalcy and patriotism.
The result? The result you can see — most of the people who graduated in the 60’s, dropouts or half-baked intellectuals, are now occupying the positions of power in the government, civil service, business, mass media, and educational systems. You are stuck with them. You can’t get rid of to them. They are contaminated. They are programmed to think and react to certain stimuli in a certain pattern [alluding to Pavlov]. You can not change their mind even if you expose them to authentic information. Even if you prove that white is white and black is black, you still can not change the basic perception and the logic of behavior. In other words [for] these people the process of demoralization is complete and irreversible. To rid society of these people you need another 15 or 20 years to educate a new generation of patriotically minded and common sense people who would be acting in favor and in the interests of United States society.
And yet these people who have been programmed and as you say [are] in place and who are favorable to an opening with the Soviet concept - these are the very people who would be marked for extermination in this country?
Most of them, yes. Simply because the psychological shock when they will see in [the] future what the beautiful society of EQUALITY and social justice means in practice, obviously they will revolt. They will be very unhappy [and] frustrated people, and Marxist Leninist regime does not tolerate these people. Obviously they will join the [ranks] of dissenters; dissidents.
Unlike the present  United States there will be no place for dissent in future [2008, “Hate Speech” Colorado SB200] Marxist-Leninist America.
[Now] you can get popular like Daniel Ellsberg and filthy rich like Jane Fonda for being a dissident [and] for criticizing your Pentagon. In [the] future these people will simply be [he makes a squishy noise] squashed like cockroaches for criticizing the government. Nobody is going to pay them nothing for their beautiful [and] noble ideas of EQUALITY. This they don’t understand and it will be the greatest shock for them, of course.
The demoralization process in the United States is basically completed already for the last 25 years. Actually, it’s over fulfilled because demoralization now reaches such areas where not even Comrade Andropov and all his experts would even dream of such tremendous success. Most of it is done by Americans to Americans thanks to lack of moral standards. As I mentioned before, exposure to true information does not matter anymore. A person who was demoralized is unable to assess true information. The facts tell nothing to him, even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents and pictures. Even if I take him by force to the Soviet Union and show him the concentration camps...he will refuse to believe it.... until he is going to receive a kick in his fat bottom.
When the military boot crashes - then he will understand. But not before that. That’s the tragedy of the situation of demoralization.
2. The next stage is destabilization....
this time, subverter does not care about your ideas and the patterns of your consumption. Whether you eat junk food and get fat and flabby doesn’t matter any more.
It only takes 2 to 5 years to destabilize a nation. This time what matters is essentials; economy, foreign relations, [and] defense systems. And you can see it quite clearly that in some... sensitive areas such as defense and [the] economy, the influence of Marxist-Leninist ideas in the United States is absolutely fantastic. I could never believe it 14 years ago when I landed in this part of the world that the process will go that fast.
3. The next stage of course is crisis, which may take only up to 6 weeks to bring a country to the verge of crisis. You can see it in Central America now; and after crisis, with the violent change of power structure and economy, you have the period of so called “normalization” [which] it may last indefinitely. Normalization is a cynical expression, borrower from Soviet Propaganda. When the Soviet tanks moved into Czechoslovakia in 1968, comrade Brezhnev said “Now the situation in brotherly Czechoslovakia is normalized”. This is what will happen in [the] United States if you allow all the shmucks to bring the country to crisis.
To promise people all kinds of goodies, and the paradise on Earth. Uh to destabilize your economy to eliminate the principal of free market competition; and to put a big brother government in Washington D.C.; with benevolent dictators like  Walter Mondale [2008 Obama] who will promise lots of things - Never mind whether the promises are fulfilled or not. He [the dictator] will go to Moscow to kiss the bottoms of a new generation of Soviet Assassins. Never mind [nothing to see here, move along], he will create false illusions that the situation is under control.
Situation is NOT under control. Situation is disgustingly out of control.
Most of the American politicians, media, and educational system train another generation of people who think they are living at the peacetime. False. United States is in a state of war; undeclared, total war against the basic principles and foundations of this system. And the initiator of this war is not Comrade Andropov of course - it’s the system. However, ridiculous it may sound, [it is] the world Communist system, or the world Communist conspiracy. Whether I scare some people or not, I don’t give a hoot. If you’re not scared by now, nothing can scare you. You don’t have to be paranoid about it. What actually happens now; that unlike myself, you have literally several years to live on unless United States wake up. The time bomb is ticking. With every second the disaster is coming closer. Unlike myself, you will have nowhere to defect to, unless you want to live in Antarctica with penguins.
This is it, this is the last country with freedom and possibility.
Okay, so what do we do? What is your recommendation to the American people?
Well, the immediate thing that comes to mind is, of course, there must be a very strong national effort to educate people in the spirit of REAL patriotism, number one. Number two, to explain [to] them the real danger of socialist, communist, welfare state, Big Brother government. If people fail to grasp the impending danger; nothing ever will help the United States. You may kiss goodbye your freedoms, including [sending] homosexuals to prison inmate. All this freedom will vanish in 5 seconds - including your precious lives.
The moment at least part of [the] United States population is convinced that the danger is real, they have to FORCE their government, and I’m not talking about sending letters, signing petitions, and all this beautiful, noble activity, I’m talking about FORCING [the] United States government to stop aiding Communism....
Corporatism == Collectivism == Communism.
The purpose of Government, articulated in the American Declaration of Independence - is to secure the inalienable rights of the Individual.
No offense but, you strain and produce a gnat. Even (L)libertarians understand that goodness leads to greatness. Where is this moral order to come from? Government? Have you checked that lately? My moral compass runs circles around the bulk of those who would deign to establish the moral order through statute. Sorry TC, but small government means more goodness, always.
I suggest you go home (if not already at home), have a stiff drink or a glass of wine, and go to bed.
In the morning reread what you’ve posted here and think about how delirious it reads.
Thanks for stating that. I didn’t have the patience to compose a cogent reply. Plenty of conservatives who like Big Government, as long as it imposes their own will on the populace.
I think he's past that point.
I thought TEA Party stood for Taxed Enough Already? Or is he talking about a Soul Tax? LOL! Give me that bottle back.
My sentiments exactly. Libertarians are the enemy? OMG> Nope, tis the statists, communists, libs and lords in waiting that are the problem. High five?
“Give me that bottle back!...Lords in waiting...”
It’s Friday night on Free Republic - high five? You betcha’!
Now, where did I leave that bottle of Cabernet Sauvignon!?
Thanks - bookmarked
I just think it’s hard for some people to accept that there will always be ideological differences. The Tea Party Movement is obviously trying to form a coalition, and the best way to short circuit that effort is to apply litmus tests. Ergo, keep the message simple. I don’t have a problem with that plan. When your house is on fire you don’t reject a fire truck that is missing a license plate... (Gawd I’m profound.)
In all fairness, TCH did not state that the governing body be granted to centralized power.
Our Founding Fathers were guided and convicted by their moral, God fearing wisdom. This moral compass was foundational in their design of our Constitutional ideals of government.
HMS Surprise, you and I are in agreement; “small government means more goodness, always.”
So let us enforce immorality by statute, eh?
“Homosexual marriage,” promulgated by government fiat—and the states subjected to such decrees, by way of the Full Faith and Credit clause of the federal Constitution.
Abortion—the willful premeditated murder of innocent human beings—mandated upon the states through federal statute...
So the federal power may presume and impose immorality and vice upon the several states. Immoral acts by statute are already the norm, and their precedent is becoming greatly expanded... but oh, we cannot legislate MORALITY... No, that would be plainly overstepping the bounds of decency!
For any conservative organization to pretend that immoral law and actions may be ignored in the face of fiscal concerns, is to help further the march of evil, is to aid in the promulgation of injustice, and is to ensure the collapse of the nation will continue unabated.
Free trade and libertarianism are the epitome of morality since they organize around the principle of non-coercion. You believe it is moral to force me to buy goods of your choosing? How would you impose your morality on us? By restricting free trade?
I am a hell fire and damnation, Bible thumping, tee-totaling XX.... but I would never seek to impose my morality on someone else. Just like I don't seek to force anyone to buy my products by imposing trade restrictions that limit their choices to my products.
However I frequently persuade people to my beliefs because my beliefs usually win in the free market of people's hearts and minds. My products usually win too.
In reading the entire post, I did not note a generalization in terms of TCH’s view concerning libertarians. It is quite clear that he is specifically referring to TPP. As a matter of fact, TCH did state:
“This is not to say that individual libertarians are not moral people; but they are moral people only insofar as they are acting inconsistently with libertarianism. They are good folks because they are bad libertarians.”
“My sentiments exactly. Libertarians are the enemy? OMG> Nope, tis the statists, communists, libs and lords in waiting that are the problem. High five?”
Thanks, I thought it was just me. I forced myself to struggle through this, thinking more and more not OMG but WTF! We can pretty much assume this person is neither libertarian (he/she seems to confuse that term with “libertine”) nor true conservative/tea party patriot.
Of course he didn't say that. But he dissed liberaltarians and that makes him their enemy and he needs to be called names! How dare he!
Obviously you failed at reading comprehension. You prefer an immoral government? So then if morals—and we are discussing them in the context that the founders understood them (try reading some of their writings) are completely subjective—than what is to prevent me from shooting you (hypothetically, of course) because you “offend” me? After all, since in your world, situational ethics must be normative, then anything goes... limits are only a matter of personal preference and interpretation. That is the problem with libertarianism, it fails to recognize that it is its own worst enemy.
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