Lutheran Ping!
Be rooted in Christ!
Posted on 11/13/2010 10:43:10 AM PST by TitansAFC
This Summer, the Lutherans, or at least the Swiss-based Lutheran World Federation, apologized for persecuting pacifist Anabaptists 400 years ago. But given the ascendancy of Anabaptists among many U.S. evangelicals, their days as a small, persecuted minority are clearly long over.
"We remember how Anabaptist Christians knew suffering and persecution, and we remember how some of our most honored Reformation leaders defended this persecution in the name of faithfulness," solemnly intoned Bishop Mark Hanson during a joint service of repentance in Germany with Mennonites from around the world. Hanson is both president of the global Lutheran group and chief prelate of the liberal-leaning Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.
(Excerpt) Read more at spectator.org ...
Excellent analysis. A MUST read.
Excellent analysis. A MUST read.
(Sorry, onyx, copy/paste ping fail - didn’t mean to ping you here).
Be rooted in Christ!
Right in the beginning, a major error: Moravians are NOT Anabaptists, never have been, as they have an entirely different history from the Anabaptists (they pre-date Lutheranism by over 100 years), they allow baptism of babies, and do not require pacifism.
However this mainline Church has the same problem with liberal theology as the ELCA Lutherans.
Interesting article thanks for posting.
I have felt for along time if you could take the zeal of a radical witness of being “in the world but not of it”...like the Anabaptists have,and keep out of left wing politics and merely work for justice from a Biblical world view instead of political you could go places.
I think we are in the early stages of a religious revival I have seen hints of it whether its groups following Dr. Charles Stanley’s 20 week prayer plan for America or even Becks Restoring Honor Rally in August...there is a fresh move of the Spirit.
Fascinating to watch for this old warrior.
Freegards,
Lex
Ping due to long ABC quotation (in the article)
Just to make sure let me say this about that, I am not sorry for history. That’s up to God.
I went to one of those Anabaptist evangelical colleges back in the 80s the article mentions, Messiah College in Pennsylvania.
I recall we had a Quaker special speaker talking about the “nuclear freeze” (unilateral disarmament) movement. The college gave this kook all kinds of honors treatment, with a special dinner by the History department, and a debate with an Oxford University PhD, who worked for a Senate Committee, a REAL expert on arms treaties. The (conservative)expert PhD explained how a nuclear freeze movement had NO supporters in the Senate, and of course Ronald Reagan would veto any freeze idea that popped up. None-the-less the kooky quixotic Quaker was lauded and honored by our professors, and the real expert, minimized.
At the dinner in his honor I asked the pacifist how pacifism could have worked in the face of the Nazis—and he told a silly story about some people who sat in front of a Holocaust train for a few hours (before being put on the next train, no doubt). Wow, soooooo effective!
Completely unrealistic and insane—calling for all Christians everywhere to unite to end nuclear weapons...(no mention of preaching the good news of Jesus in this) but this is how my (mostly) leftist professors saw being godly and spiritual...
I must admit it was a bit fun going there, as these ideas allowed me to be a real rebel while being conservative—but since it was a Christian college, they wouldn’t kick me out either.
I grew up in a very pacifist Mennonite church, and we were told stories of how, during WWII, the young men went to prison rather than serve in the military. They were held up as hero’s.
There was no talk, of course, of the horror of Hitler, or the Japanese, or how the truly brave young men went out to fight evil face to face.
Growing up that way really screwed up a part of my life, as I could never reconcile things in my mind. It took me until my 30’s to begin to see things as they were/are.
My wife and I sometimes joke that we were Mennonites until we became Christians.
Think of it this way, Christ said that he could call on a legion of angels and chose not to, because he had to submit to the will of the father.
I’ll agree with you that pacificism isn’t a requirement for all Christians, but it is a Christian response! Many times have Christians been saved through sheer chutzpah!
So, letting Hitler murder the Jews is Christian. Standing by while Pol Pot murderers millions is Christian.
Is standing back while a bully beats up the kid next dooor?
While your wife is raped............. Christian?
Who’da thunk it?
I agree with you. As someone who grew up in the Mennonite tradition I would like to point out that the leftists seem to speak loudly for the group but Menonites are normally conservative Republicans and the leties are in fact Chiefs with out Indians just like in a lot of other churchs. Like so many other churches the average mennonite grits his teeth and bears it.
There’s always one clown.
Alright, BE. You live in a nation that has participated in the largest worldwide holocaust. What have you done to stop it?
Keep in mind the traditional Mennonite pacifism was that government is legitimate, and is responsible for maintaining order by force, and Mennonites were to support government by paying taxes, and any other help they can, EXCEPT by acting violently themselves.
In WWII, Korea at least, Mennonites were happy to serve in the military as Medics or other non-combatants. Some of these guys won medals for very risky acts of heroism to help the soldiers under their care. So they did help to eliminate Hitler and other monsters from earth.
I don’t agree with pacifism, as it makes others do your necessary “dirty work” (maintain order by the use of force). However I have personally known Mennonites and they are typically very conservative, decent people who just take the words of Jesus very literally (”let him strike you on the other cheek...” )(if out of context...) and make a serious effort to live that way.
The most conservative branch of Mennonites, the Amish, broke away over 150 years ago—and are well known for their hard-working, chaste and decent life style. Remember how they treated the man’s family who openly murdered some half dozen of their children a few years ago (with love and compassion). Yes, maybe if somebody at the one-room school had a gun—and was willing to use it—it could have been prevented. But does anyone at your local (public or private) school have a gun?
One doesn’t have to agree with pacifism to respect them and their dedication to their version of Christian beliefs.
The neo-Pacifists mentioned in the article are different however. They (illogically, and stupidly) believe ANY use of force by anywhere for any reason is morally wrong. The bible never teaches this (or else Jesus would never have been called “Son of David,” since King David was the greatest of Israel’s warrior-kings) even though God clearly is grieved by violence (Noah’s pre-flood earth was “filled with violence” and hence needed to be destroyed) which in an ironic way necessitates violence by governing authorities to control unjust violence.
In my opinion, the new “neo-Pacifists” are usually immature persons who’ve led very sheltered and privileged lives, who ignorantly think that sin and violence do not come from within, but outside humans, and therefore a few rounds of Kumbaya can solve everything...
It is notable amidst those Christian denominations which believe in original sin (primarily Calvinists, today) you will find no pacifists...
I have no recollection as to his name, only that his pacifist idealism was utter rubbish, and had he and his associates succeeded in unilateral nuclear disarmament, the Soviet Union would still stand, and likely we’d be speaking Russian today, under the heal of a brutal communist dictatorship—with millions of civilians already dead (as has happened repeatedly when communists have taken power).
Whatever its motivation, pacifism is irrational and dangerous—not to mention being unbiblical, and therefore ungodly.
I have never persecuted anyone—and fully believe in religious liberty, and very much resent your implications otherwise.
If you admire pacifism, then I definitely expect your Southern Baptist convictions are compromised, and you do have a number of theological points in common with Quakers.
The neo-Pacifists mentioned in the article are different however. They (illogically, and stupidly) believe ANY use of force by anywhere for any reason is morally wrong. The bible never teaches this (or else Jesus would never have been called “Son of David,” since King David was the greatest of Israel’s warrior-kings) even though God clearly is grieved by violence (Noah’s pre-flood earth was “filled with violence” and hence needed to be destroyed) which in an ironic way necessitates violence by governing authorities to control unjust violence.
Amish and Mennonites believe in not using force for any reason. They are preyed on in some communities.
I didn’t say I admire pacifism. I said I have a great deal of respect for Dr. Trueblood. I’m sorry he has left us.
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