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Pentagon taps Mattis to take over Central Command (+the best war poster)
Tampa Bay/St. Pete Times ^ | 7-9-10

Posted on 07/10/2010 9:01:47 AM PDT by STARWISE

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To: xzins
i think you’ll see it was meticulously followed over the years by the haditha ping list.

I could really care less about your little ping list since I saw the whole case develop from the INSIDE as it happened. And as I have said repeatedly to you, you have NO clue about what was going on behind the scenes with respect to the UCMJ.

41 posted on 07/10/2010 11:52:02 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin has crossed the Rubicon!)
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To: Alas Babylon!

Future lives will be lost because some commander, some officer, some sergeant, some soldier or Marine will hesitate to act for fear of being court-martialed.

~~~

True words .. God bless and protect our awesome troops!


42 posted on 07/10/2010 11:54:41 AM PDT by STARWISE ( The overlords are in place .. we are a nation under siege .. pray, go Galt & hunker down)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner
Seems to me that the system ultimately worked.

Oh, that is such bullshit!

Tell that to the men whose lives and careers were ruined; to those who will still be looking over their shoulders at the JAG tsk-tsking them, and those who will die because of that hesitation!

The whole thing was a travesty, a POLITICAL expedient to a common act of war that crapped all over the warriors.

I can even agree that Mattis might be a good guy, since good guys can sucumb to pressure, but DO NOT call Haditha a "system that worked". Shades of Big Sis Jan Neapolitano!

43 posted on 07/10/2010 11:56:08 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Alas Babylon!
...but DO NOT call Haditha a "system that worked".

So, how many of those Marines are in the brig?

44 posted on 07/10/2010 12:03:18 PM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin has crossed the Rubicon!)
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To: STARWISE
"He can quote Homer as well as Sun Tzu."

If that's the case then the bad guys are done - 'stick a fork in them Mable'.

And I love this.....

"The first time you blow someone away is not an insignificant event," he told 200 Marines at a one session in al Asad. "That said, there are some assholes in the world that just need to be shot. There are hunters and there are victims. By your discipline, cunning, obedience and alertness, you will decide if you are a hunter or a victim. It's really a hell of a lot of fun. You're gonna have a blast out here!"

He finished in Pattonesque fashion:

"I feel sorry for every son of a bitch that doesn't get to serve with you."
Be it 'insurgent, or Taliban, Gen Mattis will be inside their heads, knowing what they'll do before they know it themselves.

It's *almost* not a fair fight ;-)

And about friggen time!

45 posted on 07/10/2010 12:12:25 PM PDT by Condor51 (SAT CONG!)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner; xzins; Lancey Howard; smoothsailing; RedRover
I saw the whole case develop from the INSIDE as it happened. And as I have said repeatedly to you, you have NO clue about what was going on behind the scenes with respect to the UCMJ.

I've no dog in this fight but there's been a lot of name calling going on. Perhaps everyone should step back and take a breath.

Forget the Haditha Marine ping list, let's just say there are well over a hundred FReepers that followed this case from the beginning. RedRover has a site that he's chronicled every article on the Haditha Marines from the beginning. In the articles posted about Gen. Mattis appearing in hearings inre to UCI he never admitted to letting it take place, period. What xzins has said about that is absolutely true and the court of three military JAG officers on the appeals court upheld it.

VR, you've made statements about what took place on the inside but have offered nothing except that everyone take your word for it, feel free to fill us in. If you'd care to learn what actually happened in the courts-martials and various hearings feel free to enlighten yourself by going to the link below.

Defend Our Marines

46 posted on 07/10/2010 12:34:47 PM PDT by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: Alas Babylon!; STARWISE
Gen Mattis sounds great. But he was part of that chain-of-command.

His role was considerably worse than that, AB. Mattis was a key participant in the Unlawful Command Influence which tainted the entire shabby affair, and made it impossible for those accused to receive justice. To further compound his dishonor, as convening officer he was in a position to end the travesty before their careers and lives were ruined, but he chose to play ball with the rest of the chain of command who were looking for scapegoats.

This has all been covered, analyzed and documented on Free Republic in the Haditha archives if anyone care to actually look. Much more in depth analysis by military legal experts can be found at other sources such as the Thomas Moore Law Center, DefendOurMarines.com and others.

As a start, I suggest any readers here who are interested in truth versus the blow-hard chest-pounding some employ check out the following:

General Mattis testimony: History repeats itself

DEFEND OUR MARINES(archives)

Finally, here are some personal comments I made on a previous thread:

"There is some really tragic irony at play here. If we ignore Mattis’ actions in the Haditha matter, from a strictly combat ability and leadership perspective he and Petraeus probably really are the best men for the job."

"Unfortunately, there are two reasons we are going to lose the Afghanistan conflict. First, it is not going to be decided militarily, but politically, and the political goal is not victory, despite what we are being told."

"Second, from a strategic and logistical perspective Afghanistan is militarily untenable. Our troops are in an isolated, landlocked location which can only be supplied by air or ground over routes we don’t control. We are at the mercy of Pakistan, Kyrgyzstan and even Russia. The land component is critical because we don’t have the airlift capacity to completely supply our forces that way."

"Even if Petraeus and Mattis decide to get tough those countries can instantly change the equation. No matter how capable or brilliant our generals may be they can’t semantically redefine reality the way politicians do and just magically make these conditions disappear."

"When (not if) things begin to unravel there our troops face the possibility of being trapped and having to either fight their way out, or more likely being allowed to leave after a face-saving but shameful “peace agreement” that the Obama regime has been working towards all along."

"Either way serves Obama’s purposes. The US military and our patriotic military personnel are the single biggest obstacle to the fascist transformation of America which is well under way. A defeated, dispirited and discredited US military is one of the best benefits for the left to achieve their domestic agenda of complete control here."

"One of the things that saddens me most about Free Republic is that, even here, people get so wrapped up in cult of personality based thinking they don’t bother to think about the bigger picture. Individuals are important, but the game being played is bigger than just one general, or even one president."

"Afghanistan is the wrong war in the wrong place for the wrong reasons. The real terrorist threat comes from Iran, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. That’s why Iraq was the right place to start - just look at the map. Iraq was like a giant unsinkable aircraft carrier right in the middle of the enemy, a perfect, easily supplied staging ground from which to carry the fight to the rest. We started well but have now dropped the ball. Afghanistan is a diversion, and a trap."

Generals Mattis is like a tragic hero from Greek mythology - despite his accomplishments, a tragic flaw of character, ambition, will prove his undoing. Both he and Petraeus are being set up a scapegoats in Afghanistan in order to discredit, demoralize and ultimately defund our military in the wake of the planned debacle.

47 posted on 07/10/2010 12:36:30 PM PDT by tarheelswamprat
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner; Lancey Howard; jazusamo

the judge said that there was good reason to believe a railroading was taking place

live with it.

your hero has problems

those who fail to admit that also have problems


48 posted on 07/10/2010 12:38:22 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner
I've read all your comments on this thread and just want to give you a general 'Thank You' for your comments from your First Hand Knowledge regarding General Mattis (and all that other 'stuff').

Semper Fi!

btw, I like your reading list on your 'FR about page'. Very similar to mine.

49 posted on 07/10/2010 12:46:39 PM PDT by Condor51 (SAT CONG!)
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To: xzins
the judge said that there was good reason to believe a railroading was taking place

Well, then the system worked in the end didn't it, with the accused Marines going free?

And quite frankly, all I'm seeing on this thread are a bunch of keyboard JAGs stringing together external articles and blog stories which only present a flawed, emotionally charged picture of what was going on with the case which has absolutely nothing to do with the UCMJ perspective.

And since I know the principal senior officers involved, I'm not about to violate their confidence and post descriptions of internal discussions just so that you keyboard JAGs can kick at Mattis.

He's now CENTCOM commander. If Obama and Gates let him do his job, he'll finish cleaning out Iraq and put the Iranians in their place. If not, then he'll shortly join McChrystal in troubled retirement.

50 posted on 07/10/2010 12:53:16 PM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin has crossed the Rubicon!)
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To: tarheelswamprat

Oh .. your words echo my most terrifying
fears about the true goals of these
despicable monsters. I pray God’s merciful
hand hovers ever near.

” .. and an angel in the whirlwind still
directs this storm.”


51 posted on 07/10/2010 1:05:15 PM PDT by STARWISE ( The overlords are in place .. we are a nation under siege .. pray, go Galt & hunker down)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner; jazusamo; Lancey Howard
Well, then the system worked in the end didn't it, with the accused Marines going free?

I wasn't the one who asked you to give details if you've got them. It's a good idea, though.

Keyboard jags....most on the defendourmarines/defendourtroops threads think they've become the equivalent of soviet political officers, so I doubt anyone's aspiring to be one.

We're relying instead on a keen sense of justice and a huge amount of combined military service.

So, I understand from your "it all worked out" response, that you agree that it looked like a railroading was going on and that one of the key players was James Mattis.

52 posted on 07/10/2010 1:13:18 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: IrishCatholic

You know...If they do not understand this concept...

It does prove one thing to me that these goobers are dumber than a bag of hammers...


53 posted on 07/10/2010 1:13:21 PM PDT by stevie_d_64 (I'm jus' sayin')
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner; jazusamo; Lancey Howard
Well, then the system worked in the end didn't it, with the accused Marines going free?

I wasn't the one who asked you to give details if you've got them. It's a good idea, though.

Keyboard jags....most on the defendourmarines/defendourtroops threads think they've become the equivalent of soviet political officers, so I doubt anyone's aspiring to be one.

We're relying instead on a keen sense of justice and a huge amount of combined military service.

So, I understand from your "it all worked out" response, that you agree that it looked like a railroading was going on and that one of the key players was James Mattis.

54 posted on 07/10/2010 1:15:27 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: STARWISE

Sounds like what we need over there. For that matter, I wonder if he really wants to be an onion grower after he retires. Maybe he could go into politics.


55 posted on 07/10/2010 1:19:52 PM PDT by Old Student
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

OK, so they were’nt found guilty. How many went on to promotions and a great career as Marines? As guess then being a civilain and not being locked up for the rest of your life in the brig for murder is as good as it gets.

Hey but the guy you used to work for gets to be CENTCOM CC.

You have a strange sense of justice.


56 posted on 07/10/2010 1:25:10 PM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: jazusamo; Virginia Ridgerunner; xzins; Lancey Howard; RedRover
May 30, 2008

Top Marine General to Testify Against LtCol Chessani in Unlawful Command Influence Hearing on Monday

ANN ARBOR, MI – Military prosecutors are expected to call as their witness General James N. Mattis, a highly respected Marine officer and one of only a handful of four-star Marine generals, to testify in the court-martial hearing against LtCol Jeffrey Chessani on June 2, 2008, at Camp Pendleton, California.

Gen Mattis, recently given his fourth star, was the previous convening authority for the Haditha cases and the officer responsible for referring LtCol Chessani’s case to a general court-martial. Prosecutors are relying on him to rebut previous findings of the Military Judge that there is evidence of unlawful command influence.

Richard Thompson, President and Chief Counsel of the Thomas More Law Center, the national public interest law firm defending LtCol Chessani, commented, “This case is dripping with double standards and political intrigue as the Pentagon attempts to appease Washington’s political establishment and press. When our defense team previously sought to take General Mattis’ sworn deposition to support our motion, we were denied. Now prosecutors, with little trouble, get to call him as their witness.”

Continued Thompson, “We all have great respect for Gen Mattis. Yet, there is irony with his involvement in this case.

Gen Mattis was investigated for ordering a ground and air assault of an Iraqi ‘wedding party’ in 2004 that resulted in the deaths of 40 men, women, and children. At a press conference shortly after the incident, he defended his actions by retorting, ‘I don’t have to apologize for the conduct of my Marines.’ What is puzzling is that even though Mattis rightfully was never charged with any criminal wrongdoing in that case, he did not give LtCol Chessani the same consideration.

The Military Judge’s previous finding of unlawful command influence shifted the burden to the prosecutors to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that: (1) the facts upon which the unlawful command influence is based are untrue; or (2) those facts do not constitute unlawful command influence; or (3) the unlawful command influence will not affect the proceedings.

The judge’s decision was based upon the evidence that the Generals who controlled the disposition of LtCol Chessani’s case, including Gen Mattis, were impermissibly influenced by Marine lawyer Col John Ewers, one of the investigators of the Haditha incident from the beginning. He was permitted to attend an estimated 25 closed-session meetings in which LtCol Chessani’s case was discussed.

Thomas More Law Center attorney Robert Muise will get an opportunity to cross examine Gen Mattis after he has testified on behalf of the prosecutors.

Thompson concluded, “Considering General Mattis’ rank, tremendous popularity in the Corps, and the widespread political implications for the Marines, both Rob and the Military Judge are facing a difficult task in the courtroom ─ to get beyond Mattis’ reputation to the stark reality that there has been a pervasive taint of unlawful command influence throughout these proceedings.”

http://www.thomasmore.org/qry/page.taf?id=63&_function=print&sbtblct_uid1=394&month=05&year=2008

...........................................................................

The Mattis of 2004 is a Marine General worthy of admiration and respect.

The Mattis since becoming the convening authority for the Haditha matter on up until today is not.

He better enjoy that 4th star and shine it constantly, he sold his soul to get it. Fortunately for the Corps, the Semper I Club has relatively few members. Unfortunately for Mattis, he's a noobie.

57 posted on 07/10/2010 2:14:51 PM PDT by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing

Good article and I concur with your statement.

The careers of good Marines have been ruined who were exonerated and one still faces courts-martial.

This is not the way the UCMJ is supposed to work and Mattis was the charging authority.


58 posted on 07/10/2010 2:40:32 PM PDT by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: smoothsailing

Great post - - thanks for the flashback.


59 posted on 07/10/2010 2:42:44 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: xzins
That's right, and he actively sought the conviction of the innocent Hadith marines, going so far as to use his rank to influence the case against them.

I do not regard Mattis as a good appointment. He is the sort of general that is eminently usable by our fascist in office.That's why he has the job, and he will coral Patreus

60 posted on 07/10/2010 3:09:46 PM PDT by Candor7 (Obama .......yes.......is fascist... ...He meets every diagnostic of history)
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