Posted on 06/25/2010 5:52:09 PM PDT by autumnraine
The limit for me is a full trial on the merits. What happens beyond that is up to our own judgment, based on what evidence is presented. We all know what happened in the OJ Simpson trial and we, well at least most of us, did not consider the jury verdict the proper rendering of justice. But at least OJ got a trial to defend himself. When both sides have presented their best offense and defense, then I think we can make our own judgments, regardless of what the judge or jury decides.
Regarding the air supply matter, I don’t know. Was it intentional or accidental? Was it purposeful as a tactic to subdue her? Was it purposeful to lessen the danger of the taser? That’s why we need a trial.
Sorry copes should be cops
According to a contemporaneous article, she turned the knife at the police, and that is when they tasered her.
they are lucky they didn’t kill her. an old lady in a hospital bed at home is lucky to live through that.
El Reno police said they were forced to taser an 86-year-old El Reno woman last week who was threatening to kill herself and threatened officers with a knife.The incident occurred Dec. 22 at the Elizabeth Place Apartments, 1955 S. Shephard, said Police Chief Ken Brown. Brown said the woman's grandson telephoned police asking for help for his grandmother, who he said was threatening to overdose on medication. The chief said when officers arrived, they found the woman lying on a bed. He said when the woman saw the officers she ordered them out of her home and told them that she “wanted to die.”
Brown said the woman pulled a kitchen knife and told officers “she was in control of her life.” Brown said officers then tasered the woman and took the knife. Brown said the woman was taken to Parkview Hospital where the tasers were removed and she was admitted to a mental health center.
rme
Oh God... I didn’t think about that. One little spark and BOOM!!
Oh wait, they did it TWICE. Because the first one just landed on her BLANKET (can you say static electricity?)
Any police officer who interprets an 86 year old woman on oxygen and in bed as a threat has likely shot a few people he shouldn't have.
Well, that sorta changes the whole complexion of the story. I had never heard of "Courthouse News Service" before this story. Now I know why - negligent reporting, in the extreme.
So, again; we have an old, debilitated, oxygen-deprived woman who shouting epipthets - and is tasered twice - and second time on her chest?
Can only wonder, what she might have shouted, after the first hit. Whatever threat she posed'; this was not the appropriate response. (We don't taser suicidal people hanging off the edge of bridge; why would they do this to a granny in her bed? No, just cannot buy any reasonable rationale for this.
(This MO reminds me of Elian Gonzales being 'rested' by booted/armed police. . .from those who were protecting him; or rather, according to those official reports; the family who were were jeopardizing his life. It is simply a brutal, abuse of power.)
Would ask again, as well; per your analysis; if a resident of Gitmo were so disturbed; would they use a taser to calm him? For sure not. But Granny got it; and faster than we can spell 'taser'. . .
Again, I don’t know whether the taser was appropriate but she was tased twice because the first time didn’t do anything when the electrical contact wasn’t established. The second time worked, obviously. As to not tasing people hanging off bridges, tasing would absolutely make them fall, defeating your purpose for tasing in the first place. A woman lying in bed is less likely to be injured as she falls back on her pillow.
Look, I don’t want to appear I am defending the cops. As my first post in this thread said, the police better have a doozy of a reason for tasing her. I am just willing to let both sides have their say. I don’t automatically believe the cops are bad, or the grandson and granny are bad. I do believe it is possible both sides did what seemed to them appropriate at the moment. I presume good faith on the part of the cops until proven wrong. Some presume bad faith and watch the proceedings. I am fully aware of the defects of the legal system. I am also fully aware there are bad cops, and folks who are willing to portray an ambiguous situation into a legal lottery winning. I don’t presume either with these people, nor do I believe it is one or the either. That’s why I want to wait to see what happens in the lawsuit.
(Having said that, because the facts of this case appear so egregious, I fully expect a settlement along the way. Does that mean the cops were in the wrong? Not necessarily. Defending this case is an attorney’s nightmare because of people’s prejudice against cops and granny’s appeal. The settlement, forced by prejudice, will then buttress the opinion of the prejudiced in a vicious circle frequent in our Oprah culture. I suspect we will never truly know what happened.)
I didn’t respond to your question on Gitmo. I don’t know the answer to that. If a person is in the process of harming himself or others, I don’t know whether the taser is an accepted means to defuse the situation. If it is possible to get someone calmed down with risking great bodily harm to that person or those trying to calm him, I think tasing would be inappropriate. I just don’t buy a scenario where a bunch of cops just decided to tase granny for the fun of it. I thing they had their reasons and hindsight is easy compared to the situation unfolding at the moment. Let them have their say in court.
Oh, never assumed it was for the fun of it. That consideration never crossed my mind. Just the expeditiosness of it, perhaps. . .or just, literally, the lure of a quick power trip. (Maybe they were going 'off duty' soon and to a game; and did not want a 'longer drawn out affair. . .maybe lunchtime and 'low blood sugar'. . .NO clue really; and who knows; maybe 'NO reason'; just a bad response on what might have been and otherwise, bad day as well. Bad judgment happens; no matter who.
Just a case of 'when' and who is impacted as to whether it does matter.
As to Gitmo; my only point is that we have an 'uproar' per sensitive conscience when it comes to their disposition; and yet, when a rowdy student, becomes just that; there are 'cheers' that he was tasered in a University forum. We protest not enough, when this tool is used indiscriminately or unfairly. It has been used against eight-year olds and now a sick 'Granny' in her bed! Imagine, if this was used to nik unruly Gitmo 'residents'; the howls would be loud and 'world-wide'.
Have to say, I am not one to ever blame police first - or last, as the case may be; knowing the extreme stress they work under and how seeimingly 'deserved' some responses may be (have a cousin who was a NYC policman for many years).
However, and again. . .power against a 'lessor' - and a sick one - per this situation is, IMHO; NOT acceptable by any measure. Yes, only 'one' wire hit her arm the first time; but it had voltage and no doubt was painful. They continue. . .and she knows they are going to 'get her'. Am sure by now; she is REALLY aggressively resisting. . .(show me a person who cooperates while being tased; or has one coming at them. . .) They risked killing her; by the very fact/observance of her 'years' and fragile health. Even if she was having a psychotic episode; this should not have happened.
It may be; these police or at least the 'lead' cop; was not a very nice person- or was having a really bad day - but no excuses, IMHO, for this response of several healthy men; against a fragile Granny. No way!
[ "The police then proceeded to approach Ms. Varner in her bed and stepped on her oxygen hose until she began to suffer oxygen deprivation. "The police then fired a Taser at her and only one wire struck her, in the left arm; the police then fired a second Taser, striking her to the right and left of the midline of her upper chest and applied high voltage, causing burns to her chest, extreme pain and to pass out.]
(Suspect this woman sent for 'psychiatric' evaluation, so as to adda a layer to their own case - while letting some 'wounds heal' as well. Though could be, after this trauma; she well may have needed it. Also sounds like these policemen are probably Obama Demrats. But, that IS being biased. . ./lol/sigh. . .)
I know you are trying to be considerate also but realize you are taking your “facts” from the plaintiff’s complaint, which is not a reliable neutral source for the facts. Complaints, by their nature, put the best spin on the event possible to support the plaintiff’s side. The judge doesn’t even look at the case until there is at least an answer filed from the other side. I have seen too many cases where the events were reported with wildly divergent “facts” supporting each side. The pleading is not proof the events happened as alleged.
Yes...I realize that; and my point goes beyond the details; as bad as they appear and whatever they otherwise might be. Stubbornly stand by my 'bottom line' because I simply do not believe there is ANYthing that Granny could do; that would have justified a taser; and so the details will not sway me.
If this eighty-six year old woman was hanging from the ceiling on a trapeze and so could knock these men over; and if she had a knife. . .a buther knife, from the kitchen - and it was in her hand. . .I would still say. . .taser not justified.
So, while theoretically; I might be called to Jury duty for this case; I would NEVER be chosen to be a juror.
Now if it comes out that Granny was, in fact, a cross-dressing Grandpa. . .and was twenty years younger. . .maybe.
How many times do you hear people make the honest true statement of their sentiments of someone that, “ I would of never thought he/she.....”
You never know. People aren’t machines. They are subjective.
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